Edward Mordaunt avoids jail after attempting to groom a 14 year old girl

[badbaduncle]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11204029/Tory-MP-Penny-Mordaunts-brother-avoids-jail-admitting-sending-sex-images-decoy-schoolgirl.html

I posted this last night and do not understand why it was deleted.
I post again without comment.

Holy shit. Didn't know any of this.

Can't believe mn deleted the thread!

Creep.

In the context in which Mordaunt made the remark, she is, in my view, clearly referring to trans women and trans men as people who had obtained a gender recognition certificate under the Gender Recognition Act 2004. She has said as much herself. This was in a debate on an amendment to the Ministerial and other Maternity Allowances Bill where it was important, given the GRA, to get the wording right. She was supporting proposed amendments to change "person" to "mother" or "expectant mother" in the bill and was commenting that the amendments were legally sound.

However, I came here to comment on Edward Mordaunt's sentence, not get into an argument about his sister's views.

In the context in which Mordaunt made the remark, she is, in my view, clearly referring to trans women and trans men as people who had obtained a gender recognition certificate under the Gender Recognition Act 2004.

But they aren't actually the only people considered "trans women and trans women" so that's rather disingenuous.

*"trans women and trans men

OMG. I have heard this all before.

A friend of mine has been internet dating and a couple of months ago met up with someone who immediately confessed that he had been convicted of the same thing, in the same way, as EM. The whole story is virtually word for word (and no, my friend's "date" wasn't EM, but predates this trial). (And no, she didn't arange to see him again!)

The whole story right down to the helping with exams and telling the girl that she shouldn't be chatting with him, yadda yadda.

This makes me think that these pervs share info in advance about what to say in their webchats that will stand them in good stead should they get lifted. They prepare their "good character" references before the finger hits the keyboard.

Oh yes I'm quite sure that she wasn't suggesting that men break the law. But she was also very keen on changing the law to make it much easier for larger swathes of men to be readily issued with GRAs @prh47bridge

I was one of those women pounding the pavements throughout the consultation period so I am probably more thoroughly acquainted with what was happening at that time than you. The fact that mordaunt has since tried to deny it has not escaped notice.

You can have a read of the disastrous webchat she did here

I've seen the webchat today. Hadn't read it before. Agree she didn't do well.

It is always difficult with a minister to know how much is their personal views and how much is being forced on them by the government. Before she became leader of the Conservative Party, Margaret Thatcher was best known for withdrawing free school milk from 7-11 year old children while she was Education Secretary. It wasn't until cabinet papers came out 30 years later that we discovered she had opposed the policy but had been forced into it.

So for me, the jury is out on Mordaunt. The bill that would have allowed self-ID was clearly Theresa May's policy and one which she promoted heavily, so anyone taking the role of Minister for Women and Equalities would have had to promote it regardless of their personal views. Mordaunt now says she disagreed with it. We won't know until 2049 whether she disagreed with it at the time and made her views known, although she clearly didn't consider it a resigning matter. I haven't seen her actively promoting access to women-only spaces for trans women, but neither have I seen her saying that it shouldn't happen. I would like her to adopt a clear position on the issue - preferably not that espoused by Mermaids and the like.

For me, the position is clearer with Crispin Blunt, another Conservative MP. During the same debate in which Mordaunt made her "trans women are women" comment, he stated that, "In reality, trans women pose no threat to women". That shows a complete lack of awareness, to put it mildly.

What they say or don't say online has no bearing on their good character for sentencing purposes. Its only relevance is to the seriousness of the offence. If they send or receive images or digital media, as EM did, it is a more serious offence. If they cause significant harm or distress to the victim, it is a more serious offence. If they incite the child to engage in sexual activity, they are definitely going to jail.

Penny Mordaunt has used 'transwomen are women, transmen are men' more than once. My objection to her use of the phrase was when she was Minister for Women and Equalities, in the context of the consultation about the GRA.

Hansard link here:

hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2018-07-03/debates/FA46FE2B-7360-4B42-93D9-D42997870F47/LGBTActionPlan?highlight=gra#contribution-AD145D64-826D-4043-BBA1-68A2446C50EB

“trans women are women and trans men are men. That is the starting point for the GRA consultation, and it will be its finishing point too”

In that context, self ID would clearly have meant more men in women's prisons, hospital wards, etc etc.

I wasn't aware she'd used it in that debate too. She was, of course, pushing Theresa May's policy. As per one of my previous posts, we don't know if she agreed with it, although she clearly didn't regard it as a resigning matter.

I didn't know that about thatcher and the milk!

This makes me think that these pervs share info in advance about what to say in their webchats that will stand them in good stead should they get lifted. They prepare their "good character" references before the finger hits the keyboard.

Sounds plausible.

No, it isn't plausible. To repeat, what they say won't help them when they are convicted. The sentence will not be reduced if the offender offers to help with exams, nor will telling the victim they shouldn't be talking help.

It's plausible that they think this will help, though, whether it will or not. It's certainly plausible that they correspond with each other in closed groups.

I wasn't aware she'd used it in that debate too.

She officially launched the consultation into self ID with it, it wasn't a "debate". Basically implying there was no point raising that TWAM. She was pretty convincing if she was secretly a non believer.

I understand what you're saying and don't dispute that. However, it's reported that EM said these sorts of things; the "date" that my friend had tried to impress on her that he wasn't all bad as he'd said these things too.

So the courts might not take any notice, but it would not surprise me in the slightest if these men take "advice" from each other to play the game this way (even if that advice is incorrect).

All the links to news reports of the conviction are all dead when I try them.

Still there when I’ve goggled them, Leeds newspaper, Portsmouth & Daily Mail articles are still there.

Just checked and the tabloids still work

badbaduncle · 13/09/2022 10:55
I never understand the 'good character' nonsense. This man tried to groom a child and meet her to rape her. This is clear evidence of his extremely predatory and dangerous character. People don't groom and arrange to assault a child on a whim, it is not an opportunistic crime. It is a crime of planning and of many many layers of deceit. He is a dangerous, predatory man, that is obvious to any fool

I thought th same about the description “of good character” given he is quite evidently of bad character.

Good character just means ‘hadn’t been caught yet’.

"Re Penny Mordaunt, an awful lot seems to be being built on her stating that, "trans men are men, trans women are women and non-binary identities are valid", which largely reflects the law - a trans man who has been through gender reassignment is legally a man. Liz Truss supporters (including the Daily Fail) seem to have seized on that and built it up to far more than it was to use it against her. However, I am happy to be corrected if anyone can point to her actually advocating for men like her brother to have access to women's spaces."

Nothing difficult here. Gender self-ID gives all men access to all women's spaces.

Oh god, NRTFT but this is disgusting. And awful for any poor young girls if they would have to go up against such a powerful well connected figure. Doesn’t bear thinking about.

Also, if Penny Mordaunt with the brother who is accused of sending this stuff is going to be PM then she will have to decide what to do with the Online harms Bill, won’t she? I haven’t been keeping up with the latest on that Bill but I understand that it’s a bill which is about protecting children (and others) from online harms exactly of this sort?

So as PM if she has a brother who has been accused of cyber flashing, she’ll possibly have a conflict of interest won’t she? If she is PM Penny Mordaunt would have the choice to keep the Bill to promote the legal protection of children and the public… but if she does so in this specific area then the media will have a field day talking about her brother and the legality of his online activities unless he is somehow cleared…
Or as PM she could completely block that Bill from going anywhere.

So this report is actually potentially highly relevant to her candidacy as PM. What does she have to say about it?

BBC NEWS: Online Harms Bill: Cyber-flashing added to proposed legislation
www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-60750463.amp

My point exactly.. Gender self-ID gives all men access to all women's spaces.

If men like her brother are in fact 'women', then according to the argument around access to women's spaces he would be entitled to have access to women's spaces like a biological women. Just like criminal males who claim to be women argue to be placed in a women's prison when facing sentencing. Same goes for trans women who insist on attending rape survivor support groups.

Regards his grooming, the sentence is disgusting. As other posters have said grooming is not an opportunistic crime - it is premediated, effort is invested over time, slowly, insidiously. Much like domestic abuse, it's slow drip process, whereby the victim is unaware until they are entirely ensnared. His actions should have attracted a prison sentence as they form part of a known pattern and course of conduct. There is no disincentive while these men get off with nothing more than a slap on the wrist.