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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Stonewall advice to Oxford Uni - don't use 'mother'

18 replies

Imnobody4 · 09/09/2022 17:59

Following on from this ruling The information commissioner has ordered the university to release what advice the charity gave the institution because there was “an unusually strong public interest”. earlier in the year.

Lucy Bannerman reveals in the Times.
Stonewall told Oxford University to stop referring to mothers as “she” in order to win a higher place on its controversial employer scheme, new documents have revealed.

It told the university to post more about LGBT issues from its official social media accounts if it wanted to improve its ranking on Stonewall’s annual list of its 100 favourite UK employers.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/212a316e-2f97-11ed-9b12-7a2e56f7aeb6?shareToken=a22f690c29e9b57b01ccb9472d99b74b

Was I imagining Nancy said there was no objection to the word mother?

OP posts:
BellaAmorosa · 09/09/2022 18:28

Nancy's relationship with the truth is not a particularly close or passionate one.

My question with all these instances of public and private bodies and organisations bending over backwards to gain Stonewall approval and points is WHY???
I know kids will do anything for a sticker or a chocolate biscuit, but these are adults.

They are paying Stonewall and yet somehow Stonewall is in charge. What is going on there?

ErrolTheDragon · 09/09/2022 18:31

So SW thinks 'mother' is ok but referring to mothers as 'she' isn't.

Oxford said it had ignored the advice to change its maternity policies.

Grin
Imnobody4 · 09/09/2022 18:32

So a court case refuses a transman being recorded as the father of the child they've given birth to, so we just make the term mother gender neutral. Makes perfect sense.

OP posts:
Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 09/09/2022 18:40

Mother is a biological statement. Stonewall are a bit thick in differentiating identity statements from other statements and really need to educate themselves so they stop spouting this sort of nonsense.

I am a mother. I am also, according to Stonewall's best attempt at 'definitions' agender. As are most people who don't subscribe to 1950's ideas of what men and women should be like. Most of us don't give a shiny shit that we're referred to as mothers or fathers according to our biological contribution to child-making.

waterwitch · 09/09/2022 18:42

@BellaAmorosa , I take it you’ve heard the Nolan podcast & the questions are rhetorical. For anyone who hasn’t, I recommend it. The only question then, is why any ED&I professional who has heard it doesn’t find the whole Stonewall association embarrassing!

LaughingPriest · 09/09/2022 18:42

Was I imagining Nancy said there was no objection to the word mother?

“There is good work on your policies, and it’s good to see clear commitments to trans staff,” the Stonewall assessor wrote. “The majority of your family policies are gender neutral which is good, but you use ‘she’ in the maternity policy and I recommend reviewing the glossary to expand the definition of ‘mother’ to ensure it is fully inclusive.”

From the Times.

If you go to this thread
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4404670-Womans-Hour-18-11-2021-Nancy-Kelley-CEO-of-Stonewall

and go to DadDadDad's posts beginning 18/11/2021 22:11 they have kindly transcribed what Nancy Kelly said. It's pretty much 'we don't want to remove the word, but you could change it'. Hmm

NK: Sure, sure. So, the first thing to say is that we’re not interested in removing or erasing the word “mother”. I’m a mum, I’m married to another mum, there’s lot of mums in our house. When we offer guidance on how organisations can make their policies more inclusive we do typically offer three different options to people. We say you can use additive language. So you might say “mothers and other pregnant people”, you might say “mothers, fathers, parents etc”. We say you can use gender-neutral language. So that would be kind of “pregnant people or parents”. Or we say you can address policies using the word “you”. So “when you become a parent” – actually that’s what we use in our own HR policies at Stonewall.

NK: I think in that document, which is a historical document, there was a notation—

EB: It’s not that historic. It’s only two years ago. You’re talking as if it’s ten years ago, if it’s historical.

NK: Sure, it was a couple of years ago. But it was indeed taken out of context of the conversation which was about those options. And it’s absolutely the case right now that all of our guidance suggests that those are three ways that people can make sure that everyone knows that policies apply to them and they are included in them.

lookslikeabombhitit · 09/09/2022 18:58

My workplace (NHS trust) received the same advice from Stonewall in order to improve their stonewall league ranking. Unfortunately they took every scrap of advice given to them. Our maternity policy has been changed to "becoming a parent". You can be a father or a surrogate mother but definitely not just a mother.... The same stupidity can be seen in the menopause policy which proudly proclaims that 75% of people experience menopause symptoms....

dropthevipers · 09/09/2022 19:18

Given that stonewall has a manifestly tangential relationship to reality, can anyone explain why anyone still has anything to do with them?

TheKeatingFive · 09/09/2022 19:21

The same stupidity can be seen in the menopause policy which proudly proclaims that 75% of people experience menopause symptoms....

That's just illiterate.

Why do organisations care about these stonewall rankings? Genuine question.

Metabigot · 09/09/2022 21:44

TheKeatingFive · 09/09/2022 19:21

The same stupidity can be seen in the menopause policy which proudly proclaims that 75% of people experience menopause symptoms....

That's just illiterate.

Why do organisations care about these stonewall rankings? Genuine question.

I was banned from using female in the menopause policy at work.

Had to use 'colleague ' instead

Why oh why can't a natal female who wants to identify as a man/ nb/ unicorn accept their biology?

It offends TW ie natal males is the only answer.

Metabigot · 09/09/2022 21:49

dropthevipers · 09/09/2022 19:18

Given that stonewall has a manifestly tangential relationship to reality, can anyone explain why anyone still has anything to do with them?

In the future historians will look back at the extremely effective, albeit wrong, activism of this movement.
I disagree with their views completely but as activism strategists they've won the game

dropthevipers · 09/09/2022 22:44

For about five minutes. Based on straight up bullying. However, bullshit cannot stand for nature cannot be fooled.

Iadorerain · 10/09/2022 08:16

I’m shocked that so called sensible people suck this stuff up. But it goes back to the fact that everyone thinks everyone else thinks it’s ok. The GC , need to start speaking up, even if it’s in private at first. No debate has brought us here.

DrBlackbird · 10/09/2022 12:01

My question with all these instances of public and private bodies and organisations bending over backwards to gain Stonewall approval and points is WHY???

My best guess is to help work to receive a Gold Athena Swan ranking by showing how inclusive it is? I know lots of equality and diversity work at my Uni is to do with this ranking scheme. Ironically devised to help advance women in HE…

www.advance-he.ac.uk/equality-charters/athena-swan-charter

ArabellaScott · 10/09/2022 16:10

The closest I can get to 'why' is 'play stupid games, win stupid prizes'. There's a whole industry built on making up bullshit metrics and then awarding itself points for reaching these arbitrary targets.

Metabigot · 18/09/2022 09:45

dropthevipers · 09/09/2022 19:18

Given that stonewall has a manifestly tangential relationship to reality, can anyone explain why anyone still has anything to do with them?

Well much as I hate stonewall I am agender according to them ( gender don't give a shite-er) so.i get to be special and different!

I'm tempted to phone them up one day and play head games.

But but you just confirmed I'm agender right? But can I still be a female? And doesn't my biology make me different to transwomen? Just for giggles and to say how they sqtare the circle .

Metabigot · 18/09/2022 10:30

Iadorerain · 10/09/2022 08:16

I’m shocked that so called sensible people suck this stuff up. But it goes back to the fact that everyone thinks everyone else thinks it’s ok. The GC , need to start speaking up, even if it’s in private at first. No debate has brought us here.

It's the strangest activism ive ever seen

Just how did this brainwash the majority of the population and silence most of the rest, so fast.
I hate it but I have to admit it's fascinating how they achieved this.

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