Another one - women's prison - warning csa

[IcakethereforeIam]

I think this reporter is doing their best with the ipso guidelines. I don't recall grc's being mentioned before or any interest in which prison. But this time it's in the headline!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even with a grc, transpeople can be excluded from single sex spaces if it's legitimate and proportionate.

I was just putting a warning in the subject. Consideration for fellow users of MN. Common courtesy, but if you were jailed you have to live with it.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11193987/Judge-sends-serial-sex-abuser-born-man-not-legally-recognised-female-womens-jail.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ico=taboola_feed_article#socialLinks

No grc, just a name change. Unbelievable.

I thought men without a GRC had to be initially placed in the male estate and then risk assessed before being transferred to the female estate. Surely nobody can have risk assessed this person and concluded that they are safe to be accommodated with women.

I hope they have got their facts wrong. This man should not be in a female prison.

There was an announcement about placing men in the women's estate only a few weeks ago, its made no difference at all. Neither has his lack of a GRC.

It is legal to exclude males even if they have a GRC, for reasons of females' safety and privacy.

Ffs!!! What's the process for objecting to this? This cannot be allowed to stand.

It's bad enough that we have the absolutely dangerous, stupid and insulting piece of legislation that is the GRA, but why in the name of fuck is he being placed in the women's prison when he doesn't even have a bloody GRC?!

Ffs, what even is the point of the conservatives if they can't get a handle on this shit after being in power for 12 god damned years?!

It is legal to exclude males but current prison policy is to place males who hold a GRC into the female estate (according to the KPSS website)

kpssinfo.org

Isn't Bronzefield the prison with a wing for trans prisoners? Although I don't believe any male, regardless of how they identify, with or without a GRC should ever be housed in the female prison estate.

Maybe they feel that as this person only seems to prey on children women will be perfectly safe around them?
Hardly the point though

Downview is the prison with trans unit. Bronzefield is a Women and Young Offenders prison.
As a sex offender why wasn't he sent to somewhere like Whatton, they're experienced at housing trans prisoners.

Women and young offenders?

The judge is clearly an asshole who put this pervert’s privilege over women and young people’s rights and safety.

Sickening!

😡

This paedophile is a prolific, relentless sex offender, without even the figleaf of a GRC. Why has a judge chosen to send him to a women’s prison? How can that be legal?

But surely a judge doesn’t decide where a prisoner is housed. There must be all sorts of things to take into account.

My understanding is prisoners with a GRC are placed in women’s prisons. Trans women prisoners with no GRC are risk assessed but can be placed in a women’s prison.

After the Karen White debacle I believe the risk assessment was tightened.

Under ERA 2010 even Transwomen with GRC can be excluded from single sex spaces.

This for me is a red line, vulnerable women in a prison have no escape route and under no circumstances should male human beings be placed in women’s prisons. I see no reason why a male prison could not be converted to a transwomen’s prison for all transwomen prisoners.

No, I don't think so. I think initially prisoners are housed according to their self declared gender, then risk assessed.

Hm, that doesn't accord with what KPSS' info is, which I'm sure is correct:

'A male who identifies as ‘transgender’ but who does not have a GRC is initially allocated to a men’s prison. If he wishes to stay there he remains there and decisions will be made about how to manage him in the male estate.

He is entitled to apply to be transferred to a women’s prison. He must provide evidence of ‘living as a woman’. His offending history, past behaviour and anatomy are also considered. The application goes before a Transgender Case Board where a decision will be made. Male prisoners without a GRC are risk assessed in the same way as all male prisoners.

When considering such cases, the Policy Framework states:

The management of individuals who are transgender… must seek to protect both the welfare and rights of the [transgender] individual and the welfare and rights of others in custody around them. These two risks must be considered fully and balanced against each other.

This paragraph is concerning. All male prisoners have the right to be safe in prison. But so do women. There are very good reasons why women in prison require a single-sex environment and why female offenders are entitled to single-sex services that exclude all male prisoners, including those with a transgender identity. The Equality Act, through the single-sex exceptions, contains provision to enable this. We do not believe that the safety, dignity and privacy of female prisoners should be ‘balanced’ against the desire of some males to be housed with them.'

kpssinfo.org/are-male-prisoners-really-in-womens-prisons/

I might have been thinking of Scotland's slightly different system.

“Male prisoners without a GRC are risk assessed in the same way as all male prisoners.‘

Doesn’t this read as male prisoners without a GRC won’t be transferred to the female estate as they are treated the same as any other male prisoner?

ie. a male prisoner (non trans-identifying) could not just demand to be sent to the female estate, so a transgender (biological male) prisoner also can’t just demand to be sent there?

Surely that means that any transgender person without a GRC must be sent to the prison housing their natal sex? So why are all these natal males (without GRCs) in or being transferred to the female estate still?

Words just don’t mean anything anymore - least of all when they are supposedly safeguarding women.

Decisions like this make you wonder whether the " bad guys" are really the ones in prison.

Those poor women 🤬

It's also potentially distressing for the victim's. It would distress me and I'd feel like justice hadn't been done. Not exactly closure that the offender will potentially make problems for female offenders (who are not likely at all to have offended similarly to him, female sexual offence is extremely rare) and be housed in a far 'softer' space than his offending deserves.

Terrible. When is this going to end? The experiment has failed.

And will his crime be recorded as a woman's crime too?

A LOT of women in prison are CSA or sexual assault survivors. I guess as a population they're disproportionately reflected in the stats for that.

With that fact in mind, I just can't get my head around how something like this is permitted.

It's callous and cruel beyond belief.

I feel like I’ve stepped into a parallel universe. This thing deserves the death penalty, not access to vulnerable WOMEN.

Archived copy here: web.archive.org/web/20220908155005/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11193987/Judge-sends-serial-sex-abuser-born-man-not-legally-recognised-female-womens-jail.html

Absolutely shocking - I don't understand how this can be lawful when the offender doesn't possess a GRC.