Another one - women's prison - warning csa

[IcakethereforeIam]

I think this reporter is doing their best with the ipso guidelines. I don't recall grc's being mentioned before or any interest in which prison. But this time it's in the headline!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even with a grc, transpeople can be excluded from single sex spaces if it's legitimate and proportionate.

I was just putting a warning in the subject. Consideration for fellow users of MN. Common courtesy, but if you were jailed you have to live with it.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11193987/Judge-sends-serial-sex-abuser-born-man-not-legally-recognised-female-womens-jail.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ico=taboola_feed_article#socialLinks

The Daily Mail have done an amazing job at covering this madness, but still it continues.....Downview has the segregated unit so this prolific offender will presumably be in general pop, amongst extremely vulnerable women and young offenders-it is insane.

Does the judge really have the right to dictate which prison a person goes to? I thought the prison service did that...

HMP Littlehey houses at least a dozen male sex offenders who profess a inner female identity.

www.thesun.co.uk/news/7851765/transgender-prisoner-numbers-rise-sparking-fresh-safety-fears-over-womens-jails/

tbere is really no need to put a male in a facility for females (except perhaps overcrowding in the male estate! 🙄)

Another article:

www.theargus.co.uk/news/21230168.crawley-bexhill-child-sex-attacker-jailed/

Bronzefield has a mother and baby unit.

We also provide a 17 bed healthcare facility, a care and separation unit and a mother and baby unit for 12 women and 13 babies up to the age of 18 months.

www.hmpbronzefield.co.uk/home/about-the-prison.html

Anyone who thinks this is an appropriate place for a male sex offender whose victims were children must be insane.

There is some interesting pronoun-ing going on in that article! Prosecution council and victim using male pronouns and the judge using female

still, better than editing the victims words and refreshing to see a male sex offender with inner lady feels described in the press as a ‘he’.

I should probably archive it before the howls of outrage cause the Argus to bow to pressure…

Archive for the Argus article: archive.ph/WEuHA

Bronzefield clearly can’t cope with male transitioner inmates, article from earlier this year: www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/trans-inmate-convicted-murder-caught-27091342

If you take things to their logical conclusion, one day there could be a male transexual IN the Mother & baby unit, if they have managed to use a surrogate to have a baby of their own & then committed a crime so serious they are given jail time-when 'their' baby is still very young. At what point do those in power say enough.

The logical conclusion is that the mother and baby programs are shut down. Because when males are told no instead if fighting for a new idea that is suitable/designated fir them the answer always appears to simply destroy the women's equivalent

If transwomen without a GRC can serve their sentences in the womens estate, wouldn’t that be discrimination against other males without a GRC, who do not assert a transgender identity.
It would be interesting to see it argues out.

The Judge doesn't get to decide. It's possible the assessment had already been completed. Doesn't give me much faith in the risk assessment process.

Luna
''Male prisoners without a GRC are risk assessed in the same way as all male prisoners.''

Doesn’t this read as male prisoners without a GRC won’t be transferred to the female estate as they are treated the same as any other male prisoner?

I think this is referring to specific risk assessment tools that are used with males only because they were only validated against men for male pattern offending. These are used to assess future risk of violence and sexual violence.

If a male prisoner has a GRC they are considered to be female and therefore you cannot complete these risk assessments for them. Even though they have been validated for a wide range of men from different social classes, with different ethnicities and sexualities for example. And even though no one has shown that men with a GRC have significantly different patterns of offending from men without.

It appears the prison were trying to hush up what happened between the two inmates. This makes them extremely negligent and untrustworthy. Poor women and babies.

''Male prisoners without a GRC are risk assessed in the same way as all male prisoners.''
Are they though? We know that's what is supposed to happen but how many men in the female estate actually have a GRC?
I don't have any faith in the system, too many individuals are willing to turn a blind eye.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HM_Prison_Bronzefield
Bronzefield prison sounds appalling, even without male prisoners.

''Male prisoners without a GRC are risk assessed in the same way as all male prisoners.''

That surely won't include any consideration of risks to women, then, since 'all male prisoners' are not housed with women .

Its weird because they don't put transmen in mens prison... so...

Are they though? We know that's what is supposed to happen but how many men in the female estate actually have a GRC?

According to KPSS males who claim a female gender identity (but without a GRC) are risk assessed using a risk assessment tool that is used for adult males convicted of sexual offences. Men with a GRC have to be dealt with as if they are female and apparently there is no risk assessment tool for female sex offenders so they are not risk assessed.

What I cannot fathom is how any male (without a GRC) who has been convicted of sexual offences or violent offences could ever be risk-assessed as being safe to be accommodated with women.

Signalbox I think the way the risk assessments are spoken of is designed to hide the fact that no consideration is given to the women involved, at all .
(My opinion only, based on previous experience of weasels words from those who should know better.)

Why are men being risk assessed for how dangerous they might be to women prisoners. All men are potentially dangerous to women - it's why we divide prisoners by sex

And I agree that it's massively gaslighting his victims that he's in a women's prisons. To be brave enough to come forward and relive the trauma of being sexually abused by a man, only to have your attacker placed in a women's prison must be unbelievably distressing.

Just to point out on pronouns: MN have said we can use the correct pronouns for men convicted of crimes against women and children.

MN have said we can use the correct pronouns for men convicted of crimes against women and children.

And isn't it ridiculous that we have to have permission to do that.

So a "risk assessment" only in name then.

Not just in your opinion, Mxyzptlk - the disregard for women's safety, privacy, and dignity when weighed against the wishes of men who identify as female was very apparent from Lord Justice Holroyde and Mr Justice Swift's's judgement in FDJ v Secretary of State for Justice and Sodexo Justice Services.

Oops, sorry - that should have been "Not just in your opinion, Signalbox".

You notice also it in the discourse around, for example, sport. But it's only 2 or 7 or whatever tw. No thought, at all, for the much greater number of women and girls affected. A few might be tangentially referenced as being unbothered or supportive.

Men, sexually violent men, caged up with vulnerable women. Unbelievable.

@InvisibleDragon - thank you for explaining. 🙂