They have turned the toilets at my daughter's school mixed sex

[dumpling23]

Yup - that's it really. On a local women's rights group I'm on, I've heard that another school in our town has also done just the same thing. I'll be writing to complain. I imagine others who look at this forum might hear that the the same change has been introduced at their children's school over the next few days, so here is a copy of my letter. If anybody else is in this situation, feel free to use/adapt this template. Corrections also welcome.

I am writing to register my concerns about the changes to the ** School toilets that have been reported to me by my child. I have been informed that the single sex provision at the English Block and the Canteen Corridor have been converted into mixed sex provision, with further conversions underway. In this letter I am requesting further information in order to better understand the situation, as the only information I have received at present comes from a child.

I will state at the outset that I consider removing single-sex toilet provision and replacing it with mixed-sex provision, as appears to be the case here, to be detrimental to female pupils. It also risks breaking the law. The guidance in the Schools Premises Regulations (2012) is very clear. It states that schools must provide separate sex provision for children over eight. In June 2018, the Department of Education reissued guidance from the Department of Education on the responsibilities of school in relation to ‘gender separation’. Paragraph 13 clearly states:

It is permissible for toilet and boarding accommodation facilities to be separate as they are captured under existing statutory exceptions. Separate toilet and washing facilities must be provided for boys and girls aged 8 years and over pursuant to Regulation 4 of the School Premises (England) Regulations 2012, which falls within the exemption provided for in Schedule 22 of the Equality Act 2010.

Furthermore, as you will no doubt have noticed, the Attorney General, Suella Braverman provided further guidance to schools about toilets in her speech of 10 August 2022. She said: ‘Further, in law, there is a duty to provide separate single sex toilets, a breach of which would be unlawful under the School premises (England) Regulations 2012 and the Education (Independent School Standards) Regulations 2014.

In order that I can better understand the School’s actions and assess how it fits within the UK’s legal framework, I would be grateful if you could provide answers to the following questions:

1. What is the toilet provision in the school and is it in line with the School Premises Regulations (2012) as outlined in the Department of Education guidance?
2. Did the school consult with students, staff and parents about the proposed change?
3. Did the school carry out an impact assessment (especially in relation to the protected characteristics of sex and religion) on the change as is required under the Equality Act?

If the school did carry out a consultation exercise and Impact Assessment, I would be grateful if you could share the documentation around these processes.

I look forward to hearing from you at your earliest convenience.

Very good point Clumping.

Plus, if more student use the disabled loos because they feel uncomfortable with the mixed ones, that will impact negatively on those who can only use the disabled loos.

In light of ‘everyone’s invited’, the level of sexual assault should factor highly in any decisions such as these.

When I think my primary school banned boys from the wee (only a few metres long) passage that led to the girls’ toilets on the playground on the basis it led only to said loos so they’d no business there (with painted markings on the ground as a reminder, even) all this seems so much madder. The school even had us changing separately for PE in Year 6 - the music room was across from our classroom & the girls (there were only about a dozen of us in the class of over 30) went along the corridor to change.

How is it that schools, some that have been going for literally hundreds of years (as opposed to the mere 130ish years of my primary now) have so utterly lost their heads on this?! Almost everyone involved in running a school will at some point have attended one. A combined staff between them should remember what school loos are like for students. And cumulative years of school loos existing & children being punished for certain things relating to their [ab]use/cleaning staff complaining about issues should have been all the information required to make it clear This Is Not A Good Idea - as Safe Schools Alliance, amongst other groups, help explain in this factsheet. (Just thought I’d make that available for anyone struggling to understand why single-sex facilities are needed…)

Sorry, my meanderings aside (it does just break my wee brain, the casting aside of safeguarding rules because Be Kind): excellent letter @dumpling23, I hope things go well with the school & look forward to reading your update(s).

That's a point, I wasn't thinking of the knock-on effect on those who need the accessible loo.

I know that this is more of an issue for girls, but honestly, it’s horrible for boys too.
Thinking of my fairly quiet boy, heading into the loo and there being a gaggle of giggling girls in there whispering and laughing if they hear a fart etc. Yes it’s not as bad as a sexual assault (or fear of assault) - but most, if not all boys and men DO NOT want mixed sex toilets - they aren’t thinking “yay, I’ll get to harass girls”, they’re thinking “I don’t want girls hearing me take a leak, or worse!”. It was mooted at my husband’s work and after they canvassed opinion, no one wanted it.
It’s not just about assault, it’s also hugely about privacy and dignity.

The first person who actually popped into my mind when I thought of effect on disabled people was a schoolfriend of mine who occasionally had to hoik her skirt up a bit to do something with her prosthetic leg. Not always very appropriate in the classroom or corridor, but fine if you just quickly duck into the loos. If the loos are mixed she's either got to do that in a grubby, cramped cubicle, or do it with boys around.

But it's much broader than that, and the nature of disability is that people have needs that they have to meet in ways that the rest of us don't even know about, so equality impact assessments rarely have access to the information they'd need to evaluate the effects of changes on the enormously varied needs on disabled people.

Indeed, Clumping. A proper enclosed bathroom means you can check who is there and decide whether you feel confident to make such an adjustment.

The open areas make that far harder.

I think part of the lack of understanding around resistance to mixed toilets is due to people not wanting to accept that even outside the cubicles, which are definitely a private space, the communal area of the ladies'/girls' toilets has a semi-private quality, so that the types of behaviour expected and the types of activity that are considered acceptable are quite different from what's expected and acceptable in a fully public space. There are things I feel comfortable doing, and seeing other people do, in the communal area of the ladies' toilets that would be a bit odd elsewhere. I mean, nobody has their bits out or anything — I mean things you might do in your own bathroom. The semi-private-feeling nature of the ladies' loos would be very much lessened if men or boys were allowed there too, leaving no comfortable semi-private space for doing makeup or rearranging your clothing or adjusting your prosthetic leg.

There's a gradient of publicness between the truly public areas outside the loos, the corridor leading to the loos (sometimes, depending on building layout), the ladies/gents loo overall, and the individual cubicle. The semi-public, semi-private nature of the communal area means it's okay that there are gaps in doors and that toilet noises can be heard. If the cubicle were to directly abut a fully-public area, you'd want far better separation from the outside.

That's rambly.

Basically, the inclusion of boys or men in female toilets, and vice versa, takes the fully-public area right up to the cubicle door, which a) means you've got cubicles which were never originally designed for full privacy right up against a fully public area, and b) takes away a valuable semi-private area that people use to carry out tasks that don't require a cubicle but aren't really normal public behaviour.

You're absolutely right, Clumping. I haven't seen that point made before, and you have described it beautifully.

Risk assessment needs to consider pupils having seizures and fainting and quick evacuation checks (so visibility gaps are important on toilet doors).
Also, as others have said, sexual assaults. Statistics show more than one rape happens in a British school per school day, are they more likely if the toilets are mixed sex?

Nice one, OP. I'll await their response with interest.

But this is most likely a case of three toilets, male, female, and mixed.

it will allow trans students a safe space to go to the toilet that doesn’t put them at risk of having to go to the wrong bathroom, and doesn’t offend boys and girls who don’t accept their gender decisions.

i think it is the most sensible option. There are so many posts about parents of bio girls who don’t want trans girls (bio boys) in their daughters’ changing rooms and toilets…this fixes that. There is still a girls only space, and a boys only space, but also a mixed space.

if people put their pitchforks down for a second, and see it as a 3 toilet situation, not a 1 toilet situation then they would realise that this is actually for the best of many/all

But we dont know do we - hence OP asking for clarification.

Or perhaps you know OP and the school and it's arrangement? In which case do let us know.

Boreded, OP explicitly describes single sex provision being replaced with mixed sex provision. Do you think she's lying?

It sounds like a student who suddenly needs to go to the loo, change her tampon, fix her hijab, rearrange her bra, adjust her prosthetic leg, or otherwise use the loos, and is in the English block or near the canteen, is going to have to either use a mixed-sex facility, or walk elsewhere on school grounds to get to single-sex provision, taking extra time she may not have, and risking embarrassment. It also seems that the single-sex provision elsewhere is being phased out in future.

I wouldn't have any problem at all with additional mixed-sex provision being available, for trans students or just those who need the facilities but don't require single-sex provision, as long as that mixed-sex provision meets the requirements for that. But space would have to be taken from somewhere, for that additional mixed-sex provision.

A problem with replacing single-sex provision with mixed-sex provision is that in order to meet requirements, it takes up more space per toilet than general girls' and boys' loos, and girls who want to do things that they could previously do in the communal area of the girls' loos will instead be taking up a cubicle (and the same for boys, presumably, though I'd imagine less so). It also removes urinal provision, which is efficient and compact. So overall, providing only compliant mixed-sex toilets means toilet provision is inevitably reduced compared to having boys' and girls' loos. This is particularly difficult on girls, who have more frequent reason to use the toilets. If requirements aren't met, there's insufficient privacy and dignity for students — again, particularly difficult on girls but not great for boys either.

Excellent letter OP, placemarking in case I need to come back to it.

Op won’t come back because it will all be a drama that has been made because of second hand info from a child, and it will be a reasonable provision designed to protect all children

and it will be a reasonable provision designed to protect all children

No it doesn't.

Latest KCSIE 2022 has a significant amount about how to plan to safeguard child on child abuse, including sexual abuse, and in primary too.

The entire point of the existence of single sex toilets is to provide privacy for females and protection from males and sexual assault.

KCSIE includes any form of sexist language, behaviour, upskirting, comments, intimidation, sexist or sexual jokes etc. it's all part of the same issue of VAWAG.

Boreded · 07/09/2022 03:50
If they have only changed one then what’s the problem?

your daughter can still use another girls only restroom, and a trans, or nb, or whatever child can go into the mixed bathroom without any shame or worry.

there should be three bathroom options as it will cater for all then. Male, female, and mixed seems sensible

What about male lavatories, female ones and a separate, neutral, enclosed room for any trans or non-binary ?

Well done OP for your letter which is clear and puts the points across well.

Please read what I’m saying.

there will be three options not one. All male, all female, and unisex.

ffs we all know that there isn’t going to be a total removal of female toilets, stop getting so worked up over something that isn’t going to happen.

Notice how OP hasn’t been back? It’s because what she thought was happening isn’t actually happening…if it was she would be here telling the world.

this is an additional provision to allow those who are not confident in their bio gender to use a neutral/unisex toilet rather than the wrong bio gender and cause upset for those of that gender, or the right bio gender and be uncomfortable.

THREE toilet options are what is happening here, anyone who believes that they are removing single gender toilets from this school are delusional

This is what I’m saying is happening. 3 options. But the posters on this thread have their pitchforks out for the school without actually bothering to realise that there is no way on earth that a school would remove single sex toilets unless to replace them with full floor to ceiling self enclosed singular toilets.

people just seem to prefer to lose their shit first and use their brains second (not you, I mean pps and op)

If you work in a school then it's a massive issue if the toilets in one block are converted into mixed sex. It means girls needing a quick toilet visit between lessons have to travel further, be late for their next lesson etc. Many secondary schools have large sites and this just (yet again) makes the lives of girls in schools more difficult and potentially hazardous.

I would not be comfortable with this. Can you get a petition going for parents who feel similarly, which I imagine would be virtually all?

Excellent letter, placemarking as I fear I will also need it soon.