Was anyone else teaching or working with children in the decade 2000-2010?

[BadSkiingMum]

I am resolutely gender critical and one of the things that makes it so tricky for me to believe the 'born in the wrong body' idea is that I was a primary teacher for about ten years (from 2000 onwards) and the question of gender identity never arose. Ever.

To give a little context, I was a full time class-teacher for many of those years (across four schools), spending the whole year with 30+ children (so knowing them extremely well) and then taking on management positions where I was involved in reviewing the attainment, progress and wellbeing of dozens of other children. Yet a desire for a child to identify as a different gender to that of his or her biological sex was just not apparent; many children were facing problems such as poverty, broken families, refugee status, learning disabilities, involvement with the social care system, being a young carer... I worked in schools where a significant proportion of children could be described as disadvantaged; in other schools I also taught the children of surgeons, diplomats and bankers. Huge amounts of time were spent in school on initiatives to support children's wellbeing. There were undoubtedly children who had mental health needs and, at the time, budgets were good so services such as school counselling or play therapy were available for some children where there were particular concerns. As a teacher I worked alongside those other professionals and read their reports, yet the issue of gender identity was never, ever mentioned. Other children were receiving support from CAMHS (even a very well-known clinic in London) and the lack of feedback on this topic was the same. Nor was it ever raised in training sessions, professional development meetings or online teaching forums, where I spent a lot of time.

This lacuna is very puzzling to me, as that same generation of children is now in their mid-twenties and a narrative of having 'felt wrong' from an early age seems to be prevalent. If this was so much the case, why did it never arise? Not once, in the many hundreds of children with whom I had contact? Never from colleagues in other schools? I am confident that it would have been discussed, albeit anonymised. Schools were certainly making time and resources available to explore and support wellbeing, so surely it would have emerged? Or are personal histories simply being re-told to suit current identities?

However, for the sake of fairness, it is important to note that, at the time, mental health was generally viewed by schools in terms of how it was impacting upon a child's progress, attainment and behaviour, rather than being an outcome in itself. I think that shift in perspective has been beneficial - I think that children and young people certainly do get more support than hitherto which can only be a good thing - but I also wonder if a certain 'pathologising' of emotions has taken place...

So, arriving at my original point, were you teaching around the same time and were your observations and experiences similar to mine? If not, when did you first notice gender identity politics becoming apparent in schools?

As Stella O'Malley and Sascha Ayad say in one of their podcasts ("Gender: a Wider Lens" - bloody brilliant stuff) - social transition as a phase, or a fad, or a stage of youth development would be absolutely fine - Dr Az Hakeem talks about it being the 2020s version of being a Goth.

Yes, strongly recommend this podcast for teachers and anyone else working with young people.

It's always been like that! I've just retired and toys right through my life have always been gendered.

the 2020s version of being a Goth.

Completely.

The only exception I'd say is that some young boys, possibly who would grow up to be gay and sometimes autistic seem to have always riled against the heavy toxic masculinity stereotype. Over the last 70 years it's become increasingly more acceptable for girls to be gender non conforming, less so for boys in a day to day manner.

Do you think general kid culture has become more "gendered"? ie majority of toys and clothing falling into overtly pink /sparkly /princess or blue /camo /dinosaur camps?

Personal observation is that TV and films have become more - more of them, more channels, more programmes, US imports, Disney in particular became more stereotypical esp in 1990s and early 2000s, though they've made huge steps to reverse this more recently.

I do think clothing for kids went bonkers in the 2000s.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g are there any remaining Spartacus threads? That one is no more

Teaching since 2001. Primary, then middle and high schools, a lot of sen/semh work and now still in education but with vulnerable young people.

This has only been a thing in any of the provisions I’ve been in in the last 3-5 years.

Is it because we’ve lost the social geoup
labels like goths, neds/chavs, punk, emo, et al. the only one I hear these days is “road man.”

@AgnestaVipers Thank you for the correction. Yes, they returned to the biological sex assigned at birth which was also consistent with their gender from birth until they went through a non binary period.
I taught social sciences and there was always a question in a section called Gender asking students to explain the difference between sex and gender. Bet that has disappeared from the syllabus!

@OnTheBrinkOfChange we must be a similar age - I am 61. Apart from a Tiny Tears doll, which I think would have been considered an odd toy for a boy, none of my toys had any gender indicators or implications at all. Lego was primary colours. Others I remember fondly - Spirograph, a push along dog, a pull along phone, red roller skates, KerPlunk, bats and balls, pogo stick, orange spacehopper.

The books I read seemed pretty neutral too - although there was a pony phase where they were very girl-centred.

Most of my clothes were second hand and it didn’t matter which side they did up because they were all brown 🤣.

if I contrast with my DCs (now 18 and 22), everything was much more gendered. I hated the fairy books that seemed to be all that my daughter brought home for a while. There were almost no clothes from my DS that I would have used for my DD. I was less aware then and just went along with it, but I look back now and wish I’d thought harder.

Thank you for the correction. Yes, they returned to the biological sex assigned at birth which was also consistent with their gender from birth until they went through a non binary period.

Sorry to quibble, not getting at you but just wanting to simplify things. They never 'left' their biological sex. They remained the same sex throughout because humans can't change sex. They chose to identify as the opposite sex for a while. There's no need to mention gender at all. As soon as we start mentioning gender we validate the idea that people have an innate gender identity and we make things more complicated than they need to be.

I don't have a gender identity. I've met very few adults who say they do. Only a handful of people did before 2010-ish. Gender's a theoretical concept that means something different to each person who uses the word. If we stick to sex, which is material, unchangeable and can be scientifically proven, we're on firm ground.

How odd, there was something strange looking about the title, but the thread itself opened for me yesterday as I was looking through it to see if I'd posted. There was another linked one, and an earlier one which I believe was deleted, prompting the one in Site Stuff. Six years ago! Makes me feel old.

I was in high school during that period. There wasn't a single trans/gender queer/non binary kid. It just wasn't on the radar whatsoever. The only concept of 'trans' we had was transvestites, like Eddie Izzard. There was a handful of gay kids, and a few gender non-confirming ones. There were a couple of boys who wore nail polish, had long hair, wore skirts etc. But this was done as a kind of grungy rebellion against gender norms: they were still boys.

Incidentally, when I went to university at the end of that period, I joined the LGB club (as it was then), and it was dominated by gay men. There were a couple of lesbians. I was the only bisexual woman, and I was regarded as a bit of a novelty. Not a single trans person in sight. Asexual awareness was beginning to be a thing, but it wasn't seen as part of the LGB at all and was more a label for people who didn't want to have sex at all. Now, unsurprisingly, LGBTQUIP++ events are dominated by trans and non binary students.

Yes, toys have always been gendered, but more I think in a reactive than pro scripted way, if that makes sense. Children do tend to imitate their parent and their other role models, so daughters see their mothers being mothers, they imitate that with dolls ( although so do boys in many circumstances).

I don’t have children, but my friends who do tended to admit ( because that’s what it feels like ) that boys have more energy and more agression. Not all boys, not all girls, but most. So boys will pick up a stick and go bang bang, girls will pick up a stick and cradle it.

What is so totally different is that if a girl prefers the bang bang mode people now don’t say ‘ oh she’s a bundle of energy, I bet she’ll grow up to be a insert whatever eminent profession is admired in the household’ , they say ‘ o she’s in the wrong body , let’s cut her breasts off’. A tiny part of my mind suspects that that’s a handy way of neutralising the competition, to coin a phrase.

This is what I was going to say. I was teaching Early Years between 1985 and 2015 and from my initial training kept things as ungendered as possible. Nowadays there is a barrage of sparkly pinkness for girls or macho superhero boys stuff, commercially, before they even reach school. All the Disney Princess type thing.

A small boy in my family wanted to be a girl until he realised he could be a boy in his own way. Unbelievably, despite everything feminists in the past worked for, there is more pressure to conform now than ever. I'm not surprised some teenagers react by calling themselves by non-gender conforming labels and experimenting with clothing and attitude.

I also get what you say about pathologising normal emotions like sadness or anxiety that are part of the normal human experience.

I'm in my late 60s and I don't think it has.

Stonewall changed its remit from LGB to LGBT in 2015.

This is what I was going to say. I was teaching Early Years between 1985 and 2015 and from my initial training kept things as ungendered as possible. Nowadays there is a barrage of sparkly pinkness for girls or macho superhero boys stuff, commercially, before they even reach school. All the Disney Princess type thing.

Particularly supermarkets selling clothes and general expansion of fast fashion has capitalised on using what ever trend is cool at the time to sell with high turn overs. Especially using film franchises, toys etc

Yes to time period. This became a thing in the school I worked in 2019.
In my current school (started Jan 2022) being ‘fluid’ presents in all year groups, seemingly without comment from others. Eg it doesn’t make you a target for bullying.
(Not that I am saying anything should make you a target for bullying).

@IrisAtwood
Thank you for the correction. Yes, they returned to the biological sex assigned at birth which was also consistent with their gender from birth until they went through a non binary period.

I'm afraid this is not what I was implying. I believe sex is a biological fact, a binary, and gender an imposed social construct which is not an internal feeling or essence. Therefore, they couldn't return to their sex, because they never left it. However, they did experience confusion over their identity.

Sorry to nit-pick. Just wanted to be clear.

That is a very important factor.

The first Smart Phones appeared in 2007 and then an explosion of social media followed. Tumblr has always been female dominated and the joke here in the USA was that what emerged on Tumblr became mainstream 5 years later.

$$$ from places like Arcus Jon Strykers foundation and others began to be pumped into Trans issues. 2015 the Supreme Court legalized Gay Marriage Federally. Lawyers funded by Stryker had argued the case. All that attention and funding for Gay issues became refocused on Trans issues (although funding for many initiatives had really stepped up in 2010).

2015 seems to be the year the attention and funding ramped up worldwide and there was a coordinated push to change the law.

I was born at the very end of the baby boom and grew up in an atmosphere of 2nd wave feminism/Women’s Lib.

It was a sexist time but we had concrete ways of using back. The sexism was so obvious it was -in a weird way- almost easier then. It was clear what we were fighting. Although things were still pretty shit for working-class women and girls. But things opened up in education & the workplace for middle class women.

And yes, toys were heavily gender stereotypes, but there was an increasing emphasis on girls playing with so-called “boy’s toys” and on trying to get rid of sexism in gender stereotypes.

Although very very rarely we’re boys encouraged to play with “girl’s toys”. Always the way - girls and women were and still are lower status, and femininity seem as something shameful in boys and men.

I've PMd you something.

@AgnestaVipers I did understand your first post regarding ‘leaving’ and ‘returning’ to biological sex, so you were clear and didn’t need to post twice 😉 Just sloppy writing on my part. Nothing to do with not understanding the difference. I am a gender critical feminist and have been since the beginning of the whole debacle 🙂

Apologies - have just got used to repeating definitions from the GC side! 😁

@BadSkiingMum
I think they used social media - we could email each other in those days, re homework etc. I had an email address posted on the wall for them to use at will. Seems shocking now, it wouldn't be allowed. What were the things around at the time? One began with M - MySpace? Was that so early?

The girls were into anorexia, ana sites and message boards, hints on how to starve yourself. That was the fashion, the social contagion then.

Sorry about the delay in responding, I've been out of the house for days.