Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Was anyone else teaching or working with children in the decade 2000-2010?

189 replies

BadSkiingMum · 03/09/2022 16:32

I am resolutely gender critical and one of the things that makes it so tricky for me to believe the 'born in the wrong body' idea is that I was a primary teacher for about ten years (from 2000 onwards) and the question of gender identity never arose. Ever.

To give a little context, I was a full time class-teacher for many of those years (across four schools), spending the whole year with 30+ children (so knowing them extremely well) and then taking on management positions where I was involved in reviewing the attainment, progress and wellbeing of dozens of other children. Yet a desire for a child to identify as a different gender to that of his or her biological sex was just not apparent; many children were facing problems such as poverty, broken families, refugee status, learning disabilities, involvement with the social care system, being a young carer... I worked in schools where a significant proportion of children could be described as disadvantaged; in other schools I also taught the children of surgeons, diplomats and bankers. Huge amounts of time were spent in school on initiatives to support children's wellbeing. There were undoubtedly children who had mental health needs and, at the time, budgets were good so services such as school counselling or play therapy were available for some children where there were particular concerns. As a teacher I worked alongside those other professionals and read their reports, yet the issue of gender identity was never, ever mentioned. Other children were receiving support from CAMHS (even a very well-known clinic in London) and the lack of feedback on this topic was the same. Nor was it ever raised in training sessions, professional development meetings or online teaching forums, where I spent a lot of time.

This lacuna is very puzzling to me, as that same generation of children is now in their mid-twenties and a narrative of having 'felt wrong' from an early age seems to be prevalent. If this was so much the case, why did it never arise? Not once, in the many hundreds of children with whom I had contact? Never from colleagues in other schools? I am confident that it would have been discussed, albeit anonymised. Schools were certainly making time and resources available to explore and support wellbeing, so surely it would have emerged? Or are personal histories simply being re-told to suit current identities?

However, for the sake of fairness, it is important to note that, at the time, mental health was generally viewed by schools in terms of how it was impacting upon a child's progress, attainment and behaviour, rather than being an outcome in itself. I think that shift in perspective has been beneficial - I think that children and young people certainly do get more support than hitherto which can only be a good thing - but I also wonder if a certain 'pathologising' of emotions has taken place...

So, arriving at my original point, were you teaching around the same time and were your observations and experiences similar to mine? If not, when did you first notice gender identity politics becoming apparent in schools?

OP posts:
Cheekymaw · 05/09/2022 01:52

Was not teaching during this time but worked with children and young people during this time who were experiencing difficulties within their families/and or who were involved with the Children's Hearing System(Scotland). Nope, never came up once.

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 05/09/2022 05:46

What was going on in the social-media zeitgeist around that time - was that when Twitter suddenly became the platform that everyone was talking about?

trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=Tumblr,Twitter

i thought it might be Tumblr’s fault but it’s not clear from Google Trends

here’s the graph for “trans” and “transgender”. Not an exponential explosion like I expected.

trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=trans,transgender

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 05/09/2022 05:53

trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=Nonbinary

now that’s a classic exponential curve.

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 05/09/2022 05:57

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 05/09/2022 05:53

trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=Nonbinary

now that’s a classic exponential curve.

I said that, and then I saw it’s levelling off at the end! 😁We may have almost reached the peak. Can I say peak in this context?

StopStartStop · 05/09/2022 06:30

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

StopStartStop · 05/09/2022 06:34

I haven't time to read the Spartacus thread now, but I'll be on it somewhere, probably under a different name. I remember that. 2016. Heck.

BadSkiingMum · 05/09/2022 06:49

Thanks for those graphs @TastefulRainbowUnicorn! Unfortunately the first link didn’t open for me.

If you scroll down to the bottom of the second link, they give the context for some of those search terms. ‘What is transgender?’ comes up quite high!

That curve for ‘non-binary’ is startling. Not that I know why someone would have been searching for any other meaning - perhaps some poor kid who didn’t see why they had to waste time in maths lessons multiplying 10001010 by 100101010! 😀

OP posts:
Singleandproud · 05/09/2022 07:33

I wonder if the explosion around 6 years ago was due to the affordability of smart phones and the access to tablets. They had been around a while but I didn't get one until DD was about 4 so in 2013, I suspect alot of families couldn't afford it for their teens until around then either. Amazon fires started to become pretty cheap around this time too.

Also there was a big push for 'toys to be toys' and a general moving away from pink and blue stereotypes amongst some parents when Dd was small. I always shopped in the pink section or blue section for DD and never called it the boys or girls section. She wears her hair very short as she doesn't like the feel of it on her neck. I was worried she'd go down the trans route (she has autistic tendencies but not sufficient for a diagnosis) but think she will probably declare herself non-binary at school as I tell her at not to put labels on herself at home and she's very aware of my GC views.

Tanith · 05/09/2022 08:07

I've been a childminder for many years. It has only recently started to be mentioned in training, and the odd SM post that is usually from newly qualified EY practitioners.
There was a lot of training around diversity and acceptance of parents and their families, but no hint about young children being born in the wrong body - quite the reverse! It was actually something we used to note on children's development: that they knew their correct sex.

plantsareglorious · 05/09/2022 08:51

I started to see it 2014 with autistic students I was working with.

hatsofftoyouall · 05/09/2022 09:08

Name changed

Yes. Never an issue.

Qualified in 2000 primary but had worked in a secondary for a year in 1998 as a ta.

Worked in very deprived areas as a primary then moved to MLD send schools in 2005.

There was one male child (later dx as autistic) in the send school whose main interest was princesses, pink and glitter and long hair. When I taught him ( this was pre 2010) he was becoming frustrated with gender stereotypes, although all children had a lot of dress up and play time during he the day due to the setting and he was allowed to at home too.

As he became more socially aware the frustration grew. I think there were a couple of documentaries around the time about being trapped in the wrong body and this was communicated to him via older teen sibling / the teen's friends - that's your "problem." Which is how he then communicated it to me one day. I did some work on stereotypes with him which helped. Eventually though, he seen by Tavistock a couple of years later who just said he loved fashion, so enjoy fashion! (he was happy in his body.) I do know that help from mermaids was sought which is probably what led to the Tavistock referral.

But this idea he was "wrong" came directly from media documentaries.

If anything in the 2000s we were tackling gender stereotypes a lot in classes. Bill's new frock was a common book to read in literacy in y3.

It's all Social / media contagion and impact of gender stereotypes.

Treaclemine · 05/09/2022 09:10

pattihews · Yesterday 11:55

One boy I do know is now a woman.

No, he's not. Humans can't change sex.

Oh dear, naughty me, using language so loosely. Of course I know that humans can't change sex. So I should have written "is now identifying as a woman and functioning well and happily in society in that guise, with a job that is useful to the world, and as far as I know not causing any bother to anyone, woman or man. (I also meet the mother of this person frequently, and need to make sure I don't slip up, out of politeness, as I like them, so shorthand thinking is helpful.)

hatsofftoyouall · 05/09/2022 09:11

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 04/09/2022 22:08

The BBC put out a programme called I am Leo, I think, which seemed to uncritically portray a trans-identifying child, aimed at very young children. Don't know when that was, but several years ago.

  1. Sharp rise in Tavi referrals in the year after.

YouTube algorithms around that time would offer similar content to what you had watched. It's since been changed to try to get "balance."

PotatoHammock · 05/09/2022 09:21

I was teaching in a girls' school from 2004-2012. We had our first girl change name and ask to be called "he" in 2010 or 2011 I think. The parents were dead against it, which gave an added layer of difficulty to the issue as at that time most teachers were generally of the mindset of supporting the child.

But as far as I know, there was no talk of hormonal treatments, or binders, or surgery though. And there was no expectation that we should convince other girls that she was now actually a boy (we kept her on in the girls' school!) I don't know if she was diagnosed autistic, but she certainly had many autistic traits.

hatsofftoyouall · 05/09/2022 09:24

Tumblr started 2007.

Facebook really took off around or just after then.

Twitter was 2006, apparently became popular 2010.

hatsofftoyouall · 05/09/2022 09:26

Susie Green became ceo of mermaids in 2016.

Had first contacted them in 1999.

BadSkiingMum · 05/09/2022 09:35

I have found the documentary - it seems to have been part of the broader 'My Life' CBBC series designed to increase awareness/understanding of children who have particular circumstances or different needs:

My Life: I am Leo

OP posts:
AgnestaVipers · 05/09/2022 09:48

locke360 · 04/09/2022 18:28

nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Gender_questioning#:~:text=Gender%20questioning%20is%20a%20gender,might%20be%20transgender%20or%20nonbinary.

I'm not going to elaborate further than this because the tone on these forums is generally not entirely friendly to this sort of thing, and it's also extremely personal.

I'm sure people can do their own research if they want to.

No, I am asking for your personal belief about gender, not what wikipedia says. You should surely be capable of explaining it in your own words?

BadSkiingMum · 05/09/2022 09:48

I taught 11-16s from 1992 to 2014, probably over 7000 regular pupils, including form groups, during my career. Not one child suggested s/he might be 'trans'.

Thanks,@StopStartStop. Just out of interest, were you aware of pupils using much social media in the later part of that period? If so, what were they using?

Occurrences of questioning gender identity appear to be extremely low prior to social contagion and the advent of cheap handheld devices.

OP posts:
AgnestaVipers · 05/09/2022 09:55

they returned to the gender assigned at birth

Doctors observe biological sex at birth.

MrsWooster · 05/09/2022 10:03

Taught secondary 2002-2017. In the last two years, we had one trans-identified-male sixth former, who was completely supported and who, afaik, used single occupancy spaces when necessary.
There wasn’t a sniff of anything else and I was well involved in the pastoral side of things. There were ‘masculine’ girls and ‘feminine’ boys but no sense whatsoever that this impacted on their sex -much more what would have been known as ‘tomboys’ and whatever the male equivalent is.

LuftBalloons · 05/09/2022 10:13

I've taught undergraduates since the 1990s, and ran Women's Studies modules and degrees (remember those?). So transsexualism, and the question of the relationship between transsexual men as women, and women was on my radar.

I also worked in a department with a transsexual member of staff, who had SRS and a GRA etc etc in the 2000s.

I'd not seen the numbers of undergrads saying they're "trans" until around 2015, despite woking in a field where heteronormativity comes under intense intellectual and personal pressure. And a disciplinary field with a preponderance of young female undergrads; and a high proportion of the young male students being homosexual.

Over the 30 years I've been teaching 18 to 21 year olds, I saw young women coming out as lesbians, and young women battling eating disorders. But not the level of "born in the wrong body" dissociation of mind & body that we see now.

I find it really distressing - that some young people (of both sexes) are so alienated from their bodies that they contemplate strong and potentially harmful medications, and complex and painful surgeries.

As Stella O'Malley and Sascha Ayad say in one of their podcasts ("Gender: a Wider Lens" - bloody brilliant stuff) - social transition as a phase, or a fad, or a stage of youth development would be absolutely fine - Dr Az Hakeem talks about it being the 2020s version of being a Goth.

But the current inexorable treadmill from social to full on medical transition of teenagers is what is so scary. Although it's to be hoped that in this country at least (and increasingly in other countries of mainland Europe) that timeline of "affirmative care" is being diverted into "watchful waiting."

LuftBalloons · 05/09/2022 10:20

I can't imagine questioning my gender because I don't feel I have one.

Indeed, @FunnyTalks I am very well aware of gender stereotypes and gender roles, and codes and expectations of femininity.

I have an ambivalent relationship with all of those - some things I'm comfortable with, in other aspects I am gender non-conforming. But no 'internal' sense of being feminine. I don't "identify" as a woman; I simply am one.

And about "gender non-conforming." I think we've tended to see this in just the way people dress, their hair, their make-up (or lack of) etc. But I'm "gender non-conforming" in that I am at the top of a largely male-dominated profession, I'm a leader, I manage people, I advise, and I participate in the politics of my profession.

Whether I do this with long or short hair, make-up or bare faced, dress or trousers, is immaterial.

hatsofftoyouall · 05/09/2022 10:27

Occurrences of questioning gender identity appear to be extremely low prior to social contagion and the advent of cheap handheld devices.

Yes and we also need to consider the import of this and impact on social media content from the US, where gender roles and homophobia can be stronger and it's generally a more binary society.

Information communication technology has sped up how the world's teens access and communicate ideas, created echo chambers, falsehoods, myths, trends, allowed easier access to porn, bullying but also provided friends and networks to lonely, socially anxious teens.

hatsofftoyouall · 05/09/2022 10:28

There are a number of detransitioned males and females who cite porn rather than sexism and homophobia as being the influence.

All cite the internet.