"Woman can't leave house without husband" - what have I just read??

[InvisibleDragon]

Article here:
www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/woman-who-married-high-profile-27870361.amp

WTF?

Some excerpts:
"As the pair firmly believe in a more traditional, or historic, type of family, Holly Joyce abides by 'what he says goes' when it comes to traveller husband Dougie, 34."

"she's had to 'give up' her old life, including her career as an air hostess."

"He wouldn't want me out at parties without him, we'd always go together. He's the man, so he can go out if he wants, but I'm the woman so I can only go out with him."

"he's very protective and worries about my safety if I'm out alone. I don't feel like I'm missing out because if I want to do something I just ask Dougie and we can do it together."

"My family were worried at first, but as soon as they saw how well he looks after me and how respectful he is, they soon approved."

"Dougie expects the house to be perfect, and to be looked after when he comes home from work. He doesn't even make his own drinks. It's quite different to my past relationships and it took some getting used to at first, but he looks after me and provides for our family so I'm happy to do it."

Again, WTF have I just read?

This isn't traveller culture this is a man being controlling and abusive and his family condoning it. It's racist and offensive that this article (and presumably the TV show it is trailing) condones and normalises coercive control on the grounds that this behaviour is just a different culture.

So traditional that they didn't marry before having their child.

Yes
but who is going to risk criticising it ,and branded god knows what

Mil and Fil ha e a relationship like this, Fil isn't a traveller he is just a fucking twat.

"Surrendered wife" has been around since the dawn of time and will continue.

If they are happy and it's her choice there is no issue

It would it be the choice of a future girl child to live that way or is that child being brainwashed into something morally corrupt ?

This type of family set up is associated with girls being taken away from school by secondary age for example

Particular problem when the family is a member of a group that experiences discrimination

This did not sit well with me ether. As the husband seems to pick and choose what ‘traditions’ he sees fit, child before marriage fine, wife going out for evening with pals forbidden.
It does seem he has married out of the community so she does not have the same support system the women in the community have.

What happens if it all goes wrong. Would she be able to leave him?

Hmm, they first met in March 2020, and she was far enough advanced in pregnancy to have a gender reveal party in December 2020. That was pretty quick work in the midst of covid restrictions.

@Novum - so she could conceived in July. Restrictions had eased then. We might might even have moved into “eat out to help out” times (or maybe that was August)

That still required the relationship to develop to that stage at a time when we weren't supposed to be leaving the house other than for very limited exceptions.

Holy fuck, is that your biggest issue with the whole thing? That they might have breached covid restrictions? Wow.

This briefing paper links to basically everything else the UK government has written on the Gypsy, Roma, Traveller communities - it notes early on they experience some of the worst outcomes of any group, across a wide range of social indicators.

The Women & Equalities Committee 2019 Report “Tackling inequalities faced by Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities” includes a section on VAWG - the estimate is about 75% of women & girls in GRT community experience DV (vs c25% women in “settled” community).

Romanticising things in the press to help flog a TV show isn’t very traditional. As a PP noted, having a child out of wedlock certainly isn’t.

If you’d like to help Friends, Families & Travellers with their campaigning to change the lives of the GRT community for the better there are details on their website.

Well, shall we say - you're on very thin ice, dear?
As in, you know...
Saying the unsayable here. Oopft.
Other than that WE NEED TO BE so culture-sensitive.
At all times.
Imagine what kind of anarchy and armageddon we would be in if we were able to say/comment freely
on any cultural issue, we are facing today?
Apologies, dear.
You just need to grow up and accommodate this
twat. Happy days.
😉

The fact that he's a bare knuckle boxer is the really pertinent point. What a career.

Thanks nitro - a lot to read !

Thanks NitroNine - those DV statistics are grim.

September I also thought the bare knuckle boxing was pertinent - provides a not so subtle threat of violence if Holly steps out of line.

Isn't this also fairly popular in some parts of the US?

She married into a Traveller family - none of the rest is a surprise.
From the article, it seems she knew what she was getting herself into.

Bare knuckle fighting has long been associated with Irish Travellers - which, going by the surname, is the community or diaspora that he's from.

Yes, Travellers do get divorced but their divorce rate is much lower than the average population. They're often strict RC but presumably he's not if they weren't married before having a baby.

Such a load of nonsense I read it this morning and just thought WTF it’s such a weird culture especially for a non traveller to choose it. Very surrendered wife

There will be a tear stained follow up in 5 years, where she has even bigger lips and has dumped him for a Manchester nail bar tycoon, taken up yoga and plugging her MLM smoothie business.

Hopefully anyway, rather than let him shrink her world utterly.

those statistics are indeed grim and I wonder if the outsider nature of Traveller culture is a factor- I've known Traveller women who had survived DV (just) and one of the issues was lack of support from other women in the community and poor access to services outside it

It’s far from being as simple as “GRT women experience 3x more DV than settled women” though - I’d really implore people to read the Women & Equality Commission Report, or even just the section on VAWG.

It seems Mr Joyce has been married before incidentally - a wife (& 3 children) - are mentioned in this article from 2016 (updated 2019, but that won’t have been to change wife/children info). That may - depending on how it ended, and there was no mention of his being a widower - have contributed to his marrying out. The place they got married was once a Franciscan Friary but it’s now a secular events venue: unusual choice for an Irish Traveller - unless, of course, they couldn’t get married in the Church for some reason. Like being divorced.

Even with there having been several programmes about the Traveller community now lots of people think it’s exploitative & wrong to basically perform [elements of] the culture.

I thought it was well known that women are treated like this is the traveller community. Don't the girls leave school at 13 to learn how to keep a caravan etc? I'm sure I saw this on a programme and was so surprised that it was legal but I suppose this is the traveller community who, for some reason, are untouchable. She looks exactly like all the traveller girl's in the programmes,