Bristol City Council consulting on new trans policy

[severnboring]

www.ask.bristol.gov.uk/trans-inclusion-and-gender-diversity-policy-consultation

Following on from passing a 'TWAW TMAM' motion of which the former council Head of Legal said 'I have never seen such a manifestly unlawful motion', Bristol City Council are now consulting on their new 'Trans Inclusion and Gender Identity' policy.

Good thread here: twitter.com/nicjholland/status/1563290810665562112

Consultation open til Oct. It's comforting to know that as an economic crisis hits, at least the council tax money is being well spent by enlightened folx voting to put sani bins in the men's.

IDK if this will help anyone who wants to challenge what's happening in Bristol;
Women are stakeholders, not an infestation.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1999/27/section/3

LGA guide to engagement
• Equality – The Equality Act 201028 states that public bodies must have “due regard” to a variety of Equalities objectives (Equality Act 2010, Section 149) and consequently, Equality Analysis (formally Equality Impact Assessments) must be carried out to demonstrate that decision-makers are fully aware of the impact that changes may have on stakeholders.”
www.local.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/New%20Conversations%20Guide%2012.pdf

They also have Mermaids training sessions for children's social work

It is chilling the footnotes refer to SARI Diversity Trust "Road Map for Trans Inclusive Feminism and Women’s Services in Bristol. Their contempt for women and girls is terrifying and scary.

Bristol and North Somerset NHS CCG used the same groups to develop guidance which was then rejected ( there are lots of old links on Mumsnet). The Equality impact assessment on it found it discriminated against nearly everybody else in society -especially women as a sex, older people, disabled people, religious believers/ people who don't believe in gender ideology. It also recommended harmful practices for young girls like breast binding and drugs to sterilise them - and any female patients who didn't consent to being undressed or receiving intimate care from male strangers to be excluded from NHS Care..

The terror it caused amongst some of the most vulnerable women in Bristol was significant, so the NHS invited abuse support women's organisations to give evidence - but they had to keep it secret as the groups were scared Sari and the council would end funding for any group who expressed concern of the trauma it would cause to women.(as is the case)

Can anyone add useful links ? eg
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-used-violent-transgender-activist-for-equality-training-x0mktgclw

public loos need to be single sex
news.un.org/en/story/2014/11/484042-ensuring-womens-access-safe-toilets-moral-imperative-says-ban-marking-world-day

UK mixed sex facilities are dangerous for women
www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

girls miss school if you make school loos mixed sex (as the council plans)www.walesonline.co.uk/news/education/pupils-missing-school-because-dont-15839558

Brighton's school toolkit they want to adopt ignores the needs of girls who have experienced abuse. CoTs have written about what they need in school- totally conflicts with council policy childrenoftransitioners.org/2021/02/27/how-to-help-children-of-transitioners/
childrenoftransitioners.org/2021/09/25/not-shutting-up/

Evidence on trans crime to the government consultation
committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/pdf/
also transcrimeuk.com/
transcrimeuk.com/2017/11/12/male-transgender-individuals-convicted-of-violence-against-women-children/

Karen Ingala smith in single sex abuse services and stats
www.filia.org.uk/latest-news/2019/11/5/single-sex-spaces-for-women-who-have-been-subjected-to-mens-violence

CoTs GRA evidence on everything from single sex abuse support to health messaging-
childrenoftransitioners.org/2021/02/27/gra-inquiry-submission/

Bbc on lesbians pressured for sex
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57853385

and links to the law and EHRC guidance
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents/enacted
www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/gender-reassignment-discrimination

The Equality Act Exemptions confirm all males, including those with the characteristic of gender reassignment, can be excluded from female spaces and services where that is necessary to protect female privacy, dignity and safety, or when females will not be able to access services if males are included.

and finally (am on a roll)
The draft council policy states no one can be harassed if they believe in gender/ identity or say a boy is a girl in school- but are encouraging abuse and bullying of anyone who believes in biological sex (ie gender critical in schoollike this girl)
www.lbc.co.uk/news/girl-18-driven-out-of-school-for-questioning-transgender-ideology/

not a good time to be a child abuse victim, a religious believer or a science student in Bristol schools!

anyone got public links to anything else? There was an open letter from a group representing assault survivors (inc by men who identify as women) but can't find it...saying they could only use single sex services too

fovas.wordpress.com/response-to-stonewall-2/

Is this the one?

The documents had an error when downloading, but this has now been fixed.

Done the survey. It is worrying there is no discussion about balancing other rights. There really needs to be more of a focus by the council on third spaces

Fucking hell, I'm not sure my blood pressure is going to come down after completing that. What a complete and utter shitfest of a council.

We're in Bath now, couldn't stomach what was happening to Bristol.

I've just completed. My blood is boiling at this bit...
"In developing our current policy approach we also considered an option of not recommending free selection of facilities (because of early engagement feedback which expressed concerns about women and girls potentially feeling less safe). We have discounted this option on the basis that although some people may feel less comfortable because they don’t accept transgender identity or think that trans people pose an increased safeguarding risk to others, this is not itself a legitimate or proportionate reason to exclude trans and gender-diverse people from using preferred facilities."
Women's feelings/safety are not a legitimate reason. Fuming!

Please take the time to respond to this if you live in, work in, or visit Bristol.

If you prefer not to take the survey format you can email comments instead:

[email protected]

Only a week left on this!

''Activists who shout ‘scum’ and ‘you’re shit’ at ‘terfs’ and men who claim to be able to breastfeed were invited to be part of this process.

Women who don’t want men in their spaces regardless of any identities men may claim were not.''

medium.com/@elsaegret/bristol-city-council-double-down-on-removal-of-womens-rights-75414695a06

Bloody hell that was awful. Like stepping back to 2018.

severnboring · 27/08/2022 13:33
They've been sneaky.

The pull quote for the section on single sex services:

“If you are accessing a service provided for men-only or women-only, the organisation providing it should treat you

according to your gender identity. In very restricted circumstances it is lawful for an organisation to provide a

different service or to refuse the service to someone who is undergoing, intends to undergo or has undergone

gender reassignment” Equality and Human Rights Commission8"

The quote is from the EHRC's webpage on gender reassignment discrimination, last updated 22/12/21 (www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/gender-reassignment-discrimination)

(as an aside the EHRC need to update!!)

They do not quote from the 4/4/22 EHRC page on sex and gender reassginment discrim - www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/our-work/news/protecting-people-sex-and-gender-reassignment-discrimination

which says:

"In the Equality Act 2010 the protected characteristic of sex protects people from being discriminated against because of being a man or a woman (Equality Act 2010, Section 11) – defined as a male or female of any age (Equality Act 2010, Section 212 (1)). ‘Sex’ is understood as binary – being male or female – with a person’s legal sex being determined by what is recorded on their birth certificate, based on biological sex.....
Exceptions in the Act set out circumstances in which it is permissible to treat someone less favourably because of their sex or gender reassignment, for reasons of public policy or to protect the rights of others. The sex exceptions operate on the basis of legal sex. The gender reassignment exceptions are not determined by whether or not an individual has a Gender Recognition Certificate (the one exception to this relates to the solemnisation of marriage through religious ceremony – Equality Act 2010, Schedule 3, paragraph 24). The use of such exceptions generally needs to be justified as being a proportionate way to achieve a legitimate objective."

or the subsequent 27/4/22 new single sex spaces guidance from EHRC:

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/separate-and-single-sex-service-providers-guide-equality-act-sex-and-gender

That is more than sneaky. It is misleadng. Shouldn’t they be asked to clarify why they are using out of date information?
Perhaps people who live in Bristol could ask their MP to question this too.

Yes back to 2018 Windmill!
Bristol is always a bit behind the curve...

Yes it is very misleading Scrolling - all the pull quotes in the policy are from the older EHRC guidance, while the newer stuff is just in the footnotes. (Which shows they know it exists!)

A lot of this is on the EHRC - they have to sort this out and stop enabling people with an agenda to muddy the waters.

I just filled it in.
Pulled them up a bit on gym/pool changing rooms being affected as well as toilets. They are clearly deploying the "just need to pee" school of argument and its disingenuous.
I also put in the barrier this would cause to some cultures.

Thanks for this. I suggest contacting councillors too as I feel this is being pushed through at a local level mostly

AdamRyan · Today 08:35
I just filled it in.

Pulled them up a bit on gym/pool changing rooms being affected as well as toilets. They are clearly deploying the "just need to pee" school of argument and its disingenuous.

I also put in the barrier this would cause to some cultures.

it might be said that if a trans woman ‘just needs to pee’ she could go to the men’s lavatories. If she feels that would be unsafe for her, even if it would be expedient, then perhaps she could sympathise with how women and girls may feel equally ill at ease when males, even those identifying as women, use the ladies’.

Just filled it in. But I didn't have to give an email address - have they changed it? Hope my reply still counts!

Thank you severnboring for the reminder and for the really helpful links.

Holding my breath BCC will listen (hahahahaa)

I know.
What I mean though is many of the TRAs deliberately focus on toilets as it makes women look unreasonable - doors can be locked, it's a basic human bodily function, in and out, wash hands, what's the issue bigot.
When to me it's a slippery slope and we'd be much better talking about changing facilities as its much more obvious why women wouldn't want to be changing next to male bodied people of any gender identity.

AdamRyan · Today 15:08
What I mean though is many of the TRAs deliberately focus on toilets as it makes women look unreasonable - doors can be locked, it's a basic human bodily function, in and out, wash hands, what's the issue bigot.
When to me it's a slippery slope and we'd be much better talking about changing facilities as its much more obvious why women wouldn't want to be changing next to male bodied people of any gender identity.

I do see what you mean but I was once trapped in a toilet late at night alone with a wanker waiting outside the cubicle blocking the exit door and stairs to the outside. As it was a ladies’, in the split second.it took to see him, I also could know something was wrong a- he shouldn’t have been there. This gave me the edge of time and force to barge past him very fast and and get out and away.

If the same man had been ‘allowed’ I would have paused to check: is he really wanking? What’s happening? All my capacity for a fast and forceful reaction would be gone.

It isn’t petty to say no men in potentially lonely places.

Also, the lack of privacy is horrible even behind a cubicle door. I remember some comment by a man about Judy Garland, “She even tinkles pretty”. Just horrible. And that’s without people who may be getting sexual pleasure via association.

Sorry for the rant

No need to apologise! Thar sounds horribly scary.....
I do think there is a wilful ignoring of how having men in the toilet will be triggering for victims of SA who are hypervigilant in lonely places. I've had similar experience and when I bought it up witha TWAW type I got told that was my problem and I should consider therapy - they just want to pee.
I also think there is a lack of consideration of the number of men who have a fetish for listening to women pee/poo. I think its a NAMALT problem

Covered in local mag:

www.bristol247.com/lgbtq/news-lgbtq/claims-trans-rights-motion-unlawful/

The council's former head of legal said:

“This is the clearest example of an unlawful motion I have ever seen. It is in breach of the Equality Act because there was no Equality Impact Assessment, and the Human Rights Act because it prevents free speech by deterring any employee of the council questioning whether a trans woman has literally changed their sex.

“The consultation on the new policy is also unlawful as it does not explain what the consequences of the policy are. It is a sham.”

Finally written to Thangham my MP and also written to my local councillor - I can't be silent any longer! Luckily I work for myself