Jerry Sadowitz

[Bearsinmotion]

Is anyone following this?

Really strange - the Pleasance theatre have cancelled Jerry Sadowitz’s show at the fringe, citing audience walkouts and complaints of extreme misogyny and racism. But have not quoted what was said that was so offensive even to him. Both Sadowitz and people who were there have questioned the walkouts. The show had many, many warnings about offensive content, and that he was going to be getting his cock out, which he did, as do other comedians at the Fringe.

there are a few comedians supporting him on Twitter, around the defence of free speech. But what stood out to me in the language was that audience members felt “unsafe,” yet I have not seen a single person say that was them. Graham Linehan has written about it here. Just wondering if it was related to the TRA frenzy as Glinner implies, with manufactured outrage or whether Sadowitz genuinely went too far this time.

I used to love Jerry back in the day, and he was one of the few calling out Jimmy Saville when it counted, so I want to believe he’s not been targeted for once again calling out those doing real harm…

I have an abiding principle that I refuse to believe there are magic words.

I guess I will end up being stoned to death for enjoying a fish supper one day. I hope it's quick.

(A book is neither moral nor immoral. It is merely well written or badly written that is all.)
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meh. I've just come from the fringe. of all the shows I saw, most of them contained something to offend. 3 male comedians referred to specific women as 'bitches', a word i really dislike. Another said that he had been accused of punching 'like a girl', another said that they don't understand why people like ricky gervais think they are saying the unsayable when they are paid a lot of money to say it (yeah, thats working out great for graham linehan and JK rowling). There were elements in each show to piss me off just like with any comedy show ever. But I sat through the shows and laughed at the funny bits. If you strip away anything that could ever offend, comedy could not exist anyore. The audience should not be in agreement at all times - that's not funny and I could get that in a work meeting. I don't go to a show to hear my own opinions chanted at me, I go to have them challenged. We're not doing a favour to young people (like the festival staff) by letting them think they have the right never to be offended.

Away @Stiches it's a Pleasance venue for the duration of the Festival, it's Pleasance staff working there. People book 'Pleasance' shows and reasonably often go to the wrong place, ie 'The' Pleasance instead of their other venues. Total misdirect to try and claim this is some sort of financial conference usher issue.

I'm on two different threads about this so apologies if my post from yesterday where I suggested a perfectly reasonable approach to show number 2 - extra content warnings, specific content warnings in the queue, offer of refunds, etc.

I'd add to this Anderson and the rest of the salaried staff and board could quite simply have pulled on a t-shirt and ushered the show if the issue was really hurty staff feelings.

I guess my playground nursery rhyme has been cancelled then.😁

Sticks and stones may break my bones
But words shall never hurt me.

it's a Pleasance venue for the duration of the Festival, it's Pleasance staff working there.

Have you got a source for that? I've worked at London Olympia and Earls Court in the past and it was mainly permanent staff doing the bulk/all of the work with 'greeters' handing out lanyards and goodie bags/programmes etc occasionally brought in.

these people were being paid, right?

there does seem to be a thing at the moment of expecting to be able to make your employers comply with your views. it's really quite strange

Yes, I would compare this to the youngsters in publishing houses saying they will quit if there are books published they find problematic.

The argument is the same, why should they have to work on a book that says things they find offensive, or God forbid, makes arguments they disagree with? Or even work for a company that is "allied" to such views?

The answer of course is that is what publishing is.

Just forty years of going to the Fringe

God I wish there was an edit button on here! I'm not saying someone who also gets casual shifts at the EICC won't pick up shifts for the Pleasance, but it is Pleasance who will be staffing the venue.

I had a boss who went to the Fringe back in the 80s and he swore he went to see an Icelandic performer who shat in a telephone box. I saw Malcolm Hardee who died years back getting his rather large knob out at Greenwich Up the Creek Club in the 90s and Ken Cambell at a one-man show brought on a naked woman who turned her arse to the audience and sprayed the audience with milk. I reckon I'm pretty unshockable but watching a comic like RCB if I had to amongst baying similars would probably have me walking out.

Quote from another site...

Sadowitz's act is also underpinned by a (probably heartfelt) self-loathing - he doesn't punch down, but instead punches upwards while repeatedly hitting himself on the head with a frying pan.
On the (rare) occasions he cracks wise about immigrants, he usually pops in a reminder that he's one himself.
If he's cruel to Asians and gays, he's usually far, far crueller to Scots and Jews.

Maybe FWR should organise a trip to see Sadowitz on his tour this year to show support for free speech!

JS is a magician, I doubt he'd make any jokes as bad as Frankie Boyle's rape joke.

I’m not sure it’s that complicated though. If you work for a council or a corporate or a charity or for an individual you will always meet people that you don’t agree with, have funding that has strings attached, have clients that are not 100% ethically aligned to your values, see decisions made that you don’t agree with etc. You do your job and get paid or you leave and don’t get paid and get a difficult reference!

You don’t tend to see a refuse collector refusing to collect the bins from a church because they don’t hold gay weddings. This is a very “luxury beliefs” thing done by those who can afford meticulous moral standards.

And I’d guess these meticulous moral standards are being funded by ma and pa (who have taken the dirty corporate dollar) so these people are enjoying throwing their weight around because they can afford to.

I’m yet to see the actual offence clearly written out - this is all very vague.

I can’t find the story now but recently there was a woke warrior kicking up an enormous fuss about something on ethical grounds and then it was pointed out that they worked for an arms manufacturer!

I don’t think there is any shame in working for an honest pound but I think there is shame in destroying someone else’s career (JS, the venue, the other staff etc) because of something like this.

A good point well made, @WalrusSubmarine .

Can you imagine what would happen if everyone who objected to aspects of their job on ethical/moral grounds just put their foot down and refused to do it? The country would grind to a halt immediately!

How many civil servants do you think agree with every aspect of the government's agenda that they're required to deliver? How many teachers love the curriculum and think it's best for their students? What about people who work for all the many industries that harm the environment (power companies), people's health (tobacco companies) or kill people outright (arms companies)?

These people all cope with certain aspects of the job they dislike, no morally and ethically disapprove of, because they get paid, and they need money to live.

There is a bit of me realising, as I write this, with a sudden rush of recognition, that of course it's students doing fabulous summer jobs at the top comedy club at the Edinburgh Fringe who are refusing to work when they don't like the jokes of a particular comedian, just as of course it's Guardian journalists who refuse to work alongside the likes of Suzanne Moore, and of course it's people working in editorial roles at top London publishers who refuse to work on anything written by JK Rowling.

It's because virtually all of them are from highly privileged backgrounds, who have no money worries, an overwheling sense of entitlement, and are extremely well-connected, which is how they get these (frankly much sought-after) jobs in the first place.

But instead of being grateful for their extreme good fortune, they expect absolutely everyone around them to pander to their ludicrous sense of privilege.

And depressingly, too many employers like the Pleasance do. Along with the Guardian and the vast majority of publishers.

Is it not reasonable that a Pakistani employee who works at a conference centre shouldn't have to, nor be expected to hear JS calling Rishi Sunak a p%%i live on stage?

I happen to like Reginald D. Hunter, who has made some valid points about his use of certain words. Words which - as he pointed out - are part of his childhood.

I say this, because I've seen him live in a very mixed cultural setting. Sadly this too was years ago, so (as yet) beyond the reach of the wokemasters.

Generally I am not a fan of retrowashing history (eg. Alan Turings pardon). Whatever the intentions, it allows some elements of society to pretend to younger generations "it wasn't that bad in the 60s/70s/80s. It's the modern equivalent of vandalising classical statues.

That quote looks like a flippant remark - not a warning that there would be nudity.

There are churches in Edinburgh that are used as festival venues - I assume it brings much needed funds. That doesn't mean they approve of everything in all the shows or that the minister checks your ticket.

Id be happy NEVER to have the P word never spoken again. And I’d guess a rape victim wouldn’t want to hear a rape “joke” on stage or CSA victim wouldn’t want to hear a CSA punchline or Michael Jackson song. I’d guess religious people are fed up of being mocked for their religious beliefs and I know gay people who are horrified that countries can ban the new Buzz Lightyear film because of a short chaste gay kiss.

I’d want the context of this comment, I’d want the views of a number of attendees, I’d want to know the complaints procedure and if it was followed, I’d want to know if the artist or promoter was spoken with about removing it, I’d want to know if that employee could be moved to a different section for the night etc.

I know I’m walking the “mumsnet is racist line” but if freedom of speech was that easy we’d have fixed it by now. It’s a complex problem.

Never to hear it spoken again*

Fucks sake.

As a Fringe attendee of over 30 years I can confirm that what you've said is correct. A few venues will exercise some quality control- The Traverse for example and Summerhall possibly as their shows tend to be arty , not shock-jock type.

I'd never in a million years go to see Sadowitz. The fact he was going to expose his penis should have had a clear warning and it was up to Sadowitz to provide that information.

Is there actually any evidence whatsoever that an actual as opposed to theoretical employee of Pakistani origin worked at the venue or objected to anything that was actually said? Or are you getting outraged on behalf of something that was quite possibly not said, in a context that is not known, and on behalf of a person who almost certainly doesn't exist, or we would have heard from them before now?

Given that the Pleasance never actually quoted the use of the word P*, which you think they would have done, if that actually was the cause of the cancellation (would have been straightforward enough to explain to Sadowitz, and to the media), I can only assume that this term wasn't actually used at all.

What Sadowitz actually did say remains unknown. And unless the Pleasance admit it, which currently seems unlikely, will remain unknown.

It all feels rather Kafkaesque. Or should that be Stalinist? Accused of a crime that is not described, with no evidence given, and found guilty by a secret court of...students working a holiday job.

Hmm.

That BBC story needs a proofread. It seems to be about both Jerry and Gerry Sadowitz.

Stewart Lee used to do a routine about “the values of the Carphone Warehouse” in which he mocked the vacuous virtue signalling of corporations. I suspect he doesn’t perform that any more.