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“Queer tourists”
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GenuinelyCurious123 · 04/08/2022 19:52

For any LGBT+ people out there, how do you feel about celebrities such as Jameela Jamil or Demi Lovato claiming to be “queer” or non-binary?

Jameela Jamil is in a long-term relationship with a man.

Demi Lovato, as far as I know, is also in a heterosexual relationship and presents in a feminine way. She previously used they/them pronouns because she wasn’t sure which toilet to use - she didn’t feel male or female, you see - but now she feels more “feminine” again, she has gone back to she/her.

Please can someone explain: in what way are these women queer???

Doesn’t it annoy actual gay or trans people when these non-entities try to jump on the bandwagon just to generate publicity for themselves?

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SarahAndQuack · 04/08/2022 21:42

@ArcheryAnnie, I personally find the term 'queer' pretty upsetting, but I think you are wildly optimistic if you think it's no longer familiar as a slur to under 30s. Sadly, I'm absolutely sure it's still being used in just the same sense it always was.

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GCBookseller · 04/08/2022 21:42

I don’t like ‘queer’ - it’s a slur for me.

What I really object to is homosexuality being redefined by the likes of Stonewall as same-gender attraction. No, for a great many of us it’s same-sex attraction. A transwoman in a relationship with a woman is NOT a lesbian relationship, it’s a heterosexual one.

‘Non-binary’ is (to me) someone just trying very hard to show they’re different, ultimately it’s meaningless.

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GreyCouncil · 04/08/2022 21:49

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

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ArcheryAnnie · 04/08/2022 21:57

SarahAndQuack · 04/08/2022 21:42

@ArcheryAnnie, I personally find the term 'queer' pretty upsetting, but I think you are wildly optimistic if you think it's no longer familiar as a slur to under 30s. Sadly, I'm absolutely sure it's still being used in just the same sense it always was.

The Tate now uses the word "queer" in a celebratory way, so does the v&A, the Museum of London, and many other organisations. It's possible that somebody under 30 has only ever experienced the word "queer" as an abusive slur accompanied by threats, as many of us once did, but it's far more likely that they will also have grown up experiencing it also as, or only as, a neutral or positive word.

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Flambed · 04/08/2022 22:13

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

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RoseslnTheHospital · 04/08/2022 22:26

I think if you are a bisexual woman who has only had relationships with men, that you should be aware of the fact that you just won't face the issues and obvious discrimination/hate that people in same sex relationships face just by going about their lives. Perhaps that's what people are reacting to when those in Jamil's position claim the label "queer".

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Tania64 · 04/08/2022 22:28

I couldn't care less what people call themselves just so long as those with a penis stay out of female spaces.

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/08/2022 22:30

got pointed to this board by a friend with concerns about the erosions of womens rights, all I found was a bunch of schoolyard bullies cheering each other on.

That's funny, because reading your posts during the last couple of days I haven't seen anyone engaging with women's concerns, just sneering and goading and Twitter style insults.

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houseonthehill · 04/08/2022 22:47

Both Queer and Non-Binary are such broad terms now that pretty much everyone can claim to be one or both.

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apricotjan · 04/08/2022 22:48

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

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FilePhoto · 04/08/2022 22:56

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Ummm... what? PP asked you a question. And your answer was "ugh homophobia. I'm out"

Right then.

FWIW both my DC see "queer" as a slur, although apparently its not used often.

And from the title I thought this was going to be about queer people being tourists on holidayGrin

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SarahAndQuack · 04/08/2022 23:14

ArcheryAnnie · 04/08/2022 21:57

The Tate now uses the word "queer" in a celebratory way, so does the v&A, the Museum of London, and many other organisations. It's possible that somebody under 30 has only ever experienced the word "queer" as an abusive slur accompanied by threats, as many of us once did, but it's far more likely that they will also have grown up experiencing it also as, or only as, a neutral or positive word.

Oh, sorry, I wasn't clear.

I am very well up on this debate; I've published on it myself. I am aware that 'queer' is a much-used term (especially, as you say, by institutions, where PR people seem to imagine they're being accessible).

I agree it's possible someone under 30 has never heard the term as a slur. What I was disagreeing with you about, though, was the rather different claim that the chances are that if you are under 30, you've never experienced the use of "queer" as a slur personally. I don't believe that's true. I think you would have to move in unusually privileged circles to have never heard 'queer' used as a slur. Most people, even under 30, don't just go to museums and art galleries - they also have to listen to uncle Bill telling them how the queers have only themselves to blame for this monkeypox thing, or dad saying yes, times have changed and thank goodness, but it's only natural people find queers disgusting.

I have taught students who were not welcome at home if they insisted on being visibly gay. I have worked with more than one student who had literally been made homeless. I've given lectures on queer theory, which ended with students approaching me to say how glad they were I (deliberately) used the term 'queer' very sparingly, because they had family members who used it as an active slur. It is very common. Please don't be fooled. Yes, big institutions think it's clever to use 'queer' as a reclaimed word, and they imagine it's that simple, but for many ordinary young people, it is really not.

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Wonnle · 04/08/2022 23:16

Sounds like complete and utter bollocks to me , just like nearly everything on here !

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Hearach15 · 05/08/2022 00:01

GenuinelyCurious123 · 04/08/2022 19:52

For any LGBT+ people out there, how do you feel about celebrities such as Jameela Jamil or Demi Lovato claiming to be “queer” or non-binary?

Jameela Jamil is in a long-term relationship with a man.

Demi Lovato, as far as I know, is also in a heterosexual relationship and presents in a feminine way. She previously used they/them pronouns because she wasn’t sure which toilet to use - she didn’t feel male or female, you see - but now she feels more “feminine” again, she has gone back to she/her.

Please can someone explain: in what way are these women queer???

Doesn’t it annoy actual gay or trans people when these non-entities try to jump on the bandwagon just to generate publicity for themselves?

"Doesn’t it annoy actual gay or trans people when these non-entities try to jump on the bandwagon just to generate publicity for themselves?"

No, non-binary people are very much part of the LGBTQ community.

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Hearach15 · 05/08/2022 00:02

DeliaTookATumble · 04/08/2022 20:51

I’m a bisexual who grew up in the 70s and I’m delighted that our work, our fighting, has given younger people the freedom to explore their sexuality fully and be open about it. This is what I wanted. But we’re all different.

Good on them.

Here here.

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FrancescaContini · 05/08/2022 00:04

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Oh. OK then.

So you can’t explain the difference? And have a hissy fit and walk away?

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Trying20 · 05/08/2022 00:10

This post has been withdrawn by the OP

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Iluvfriends · 05/08/2022 00:13

I hate the use of the word 'queer'. It still sounds so derogatory.

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ChagSameachDoreen · 05/08/2022 07:25

"Queer", like "non-binary", is a very useful little word as it allows you to claim oppression without having to do anything.

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ChagSameachDoreen · 05/08/2022 07:26

im done with you all.

🤣🤣🤣

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Theeyeballsinthesky · 05/08/2022 07:29

When are the summer holidays over? 🙄

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NashvilleQueen · 05/08/2022 07:37

Leaving airside whether the word queer is problematic itself I think that there are some people who lead entirely straight lives who use the term to make themselves sound a bit more interesting.

There was a female comedian who 'outed herself as queer when she's in her 30s and has only ever had opposite sex relationships/flings. It just feels as though it's a fashion item for some people (absolutely not all)

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PomeloPudding · 05/08/2022 07:53

This discussion/issue makes me think of a (potential) parallel relating to disability.

Disabled people face various struggles non-disabled people don't face. As well as the disability, there's discrimination, abuse, a world that "others" you.

But then there are different types and levels of disability which hugely affect this. So you have people who speak out a lot about being disabled, but who basically live a normal life with the disability barely making a difference. Then you have people who's lives are severely compromised by disability, with everything they do needing to take it into account and many things off limits altogether.
And of course you have everything in between, and huge differences depending on the type of disability, and crucially, the resources the person has and the attitudes of those around them.
So someone who is, say, almost completely paralyzed, or someone who has autism leading to social isolation and being a target for abuse, might look at someone like, say, Adam Hills of The Last Leg and think "you have no idea".

So I think this is a sort of parallel to people calling themselves "queer" when, in their present situation, they are not really facing any difficulties due to being "queer". And how that appears to those who are also "queer" but actually facing daily difficulties and discrimination, up to and including physical danger.

I suppose the nub of the matter is around whether it is personally socially advantageous to identify as part of that group. Some people seem to cash in on the positives of identifying as "queer" without facing the negatives. Identity politics moves away from dismantling actual obstacles certain groups face and towards membership of those groups being a badge of honour deserving of special treatment. (And this is where the parallel to disability ends, as disability barely makes it onto the social hierarchy practiced by those invested in identity politics.)

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donquixotedelamancha · 05/08/2022 08:11

Most bisexuals in long-term relationships have a partner of the opposite sex.

The issue in JJ's case is that she's never had a relationship with a man, has a history of lying and only 'came out' as 'queer' when challenged about taking a hosting slot which could have gone to an LGB person.

She has avoided claiming to be bisexual, her queerness appears to be 'being non-binary', despite presenting in a fairly stereotypical way.

I don't think OP asking this question is saying that bi people stop being so in straight relationships.

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Whitehorsegirl · 05/08/2022 08:34

You seem to believe that someone can only be gay or straight...

Which is of course totally inaccurate. Some people can be attracted to men and women and will describe themselves as queer, bisexual or whatever.

People can also describe themselves with whatever term(s) they feel comfortable with.

It is not for you to decide if they have the right to or not to use that term.

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