Kemi Badenoch on the Tavistock GIDS

[InTheCanteen]

This is so good:

Tavistock scandal shows the dangers of civil service groupthink

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0df1a300-1022-11ed-b7aa-67f5549661eb?shareToken=a63b0046a438836d715431528446b1a3

“I insisted on meeting campaigners on both sides of the debate: not just Stonewall but, to the horror of some officials, the LGB Alliance. I met clinicians and, most importantly, I asked to meet young people who had used the Tavistock’s services.

One such young person was Keira Bell. To my surprise, I was advised strongly and repeatedly by civil servants in the department that it would be “inappropriate” to speak to her. I overruled the advice. Along with other advisers across government I met Keira and listened to what she had to say. Her testimony was harrowing and brought many on the Zoom call to tears. Keira described how, after being put on puberty blockers at the age of 16, she was given testosterone shots at 17, before her breasts were cut off at 20. Worse was the casual indifference she described from the GIDS service to her continued post-surgery wellbeing.“

It is very difficult to get any trial involving children through the ethics committee. Everybody who has ever undertaken any clinical research knows that. They would also have been very well aware that any new or controversial treatment involving children should have been very carefully monitored and extensive records kept. There is absolutely no excuse.

When I embarked on my midwifery training, the first thing we were told was that our record keeping had to be extensive and accurate because everything had to be kept for a minimum of 21 years.

This one area of the NHS seems to have been able to simply throw away the rule book.

I've had a dodgy little toe for for 20 years. It's always an odd colour, has virtually no blood supply to it, the nail gave up the ghost about 15 years due to lack of who knows what. It hurts constantly and it keeps me awake at night.

It's of no use to me whatsoever.

I have asked a few times if they can just cut it off. Unsurprisingly as it is still a functioning, if not a well functioning, toe the answer is always no.

So... How the fuck do the NHS square that with cutting perfectly good breast tissue off just because!

Yes to this. Keep records of everything from the very start and make sure you follow up any phone calls with a detailed summary email. IME schools can be very keen to keep communications verbal which leaves parents with little to fall back on as evidence of what was said/not said.

You can also do a subject access request if needed. If your child is over a certain age (from 12+ in Scotland, not sure about the rest of the U.K.?) you need their permission to receive their data, but a SAR can result in a goldmine. From experience, schools can try to fob parents by refusing to give them their data- our former school is currently refusing to give me some of the data they hold about us because they promised staff some of what they said and hold in their files about us wouldn’t be shared (seriously!). The ICO has very helpful information on their website re schools and what must be shared as part of a SAR and when I’ve spoken to them, they have been very clear as to the obligations schools have re sharing personal data.

It's in the Mail Online today, which gives the story and even bigger readership.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11067601/Kemi-Badenoch-fought-battle-civil-servants-controversial-gender-clinic.html

I find it interesting to observe the Daily Mail readers being massive fans of Kemi, with not a single racist or misogynistic post (in the top few, anyway), and hoping for a big role for her in the government.

I think that's also really good, no?

There’s also an article by Kathleen Stock on the Tavistock in Unherd.

Yes, it’s almost as though the little world the left has constructed for itself - where they have the monopoly on goodness and everyone who disagrees with them is evil, racist and wrong - isn’t actually real, isn’t it?

@TullyApplebottom Yes, there's truly more goodness in people than the left currently gives them credit for

I'm a leftish sort. This tendency to othering and self righteousness is something that needs to be taken apart and looked at very carefully. Since this whole <waves hands> thing, I've lost almost all my faith in anyone on the left. They won't speak simple, basic truth. They won't stand up to bullies. They won't listen.

All that I used to think was brave heroism in the face of evil is actually just starting to look like nasty wankerism. Moral turpitude. Genuine cowardice and self-interest.

This doesn't mean I've become rightwing. Just that I see nothing, currently, on the left that convinces me they are rational, compassionate, thoughtful or honest.

And I don't even say this because I hate the left. I still believe inpretty much socialist ideals. I say this because they are failing every principle the left is supposed to fucking stand for. They've become the people they profess to despise (I use the word 'despise' because it seems the more people bang on about being loving and kind the more they also feel justified in posting vicious personal attacks on anyone they deem 'on the wrong side of history'). I've had enough of that.

I think it’s important to recognise that now, for most of its adherents, left wing politics is not about the desire to better the lot of the ordinary man. It is an opportunity to vent your hatred of people you dislike, to bully, to coerce, to preach, to congratulate yourself on being better than the others.
it also contains a lot of snobbishness. The sneering has become explicit ( see that Thornberry creature for an example).
there are good left wing politicians still of course. But they are the minority.

Well, I also don't hold with calling anyone a 'creature'. And I don't know about 'most', at all. Most on the left are good people, but they are being led and encouraged into a very unhealthy mindset.

I completely agree your post, and am awaiting for the sane part of the Labour Party to re-assert control, perhaps in vain.

It does exist, and committed Labour supporters I know are truly lovely people, so my hope is still alive.

Otherwise this coming backlash will be unnecessarily harsh, and it scares me.

Believe me, my original choice of language was less polite.
I can’t agree with I’m afraid. Labour is past the point of no return. The rots gone too deep.

@JosephineGH To be fair, I don't think this name-calling ever happens by left-wing women on Mumsnet, and the attitudes you described are never expressed, from what I've seen.

I believe this issue is not party-political, and can actually be used to build the bridges between the women of all parties, so no need for apportioning the blame along these lines.

There is more that unites us than divides us women.

I'm not equating 'leftwing' with Labour, fwiw. Some of my most vociferous and antagonistic leftie friends certainly are Labour members/voters, but I'm in Scotland and our political landscape is a bit different.

Almost all of my friends and family are what I would call centrish left. And most of them definitely are good people.

I think if you're exposed to a relentless stream of negativity and spin about the Tories and the right you can end up forgetting that we are all people and just have different ideas, for the most part. Very few people are actively wishing harm on others.

There is more that unites us than divides us women.

Yep.

If most on the left are good people then why are so many of them on social media such as here so unpleasant?

I think 'social media' are two key words in that sentence, tbh.

Well, I also don't hold with calling anyone a 'creature

Screechingechochamber have you seen what Tory MPs and anyone brave enough to admit to voting Tory are called on mumsnet?
’Creature’ is mild in comparison.

Probably not on this board, so a moot point imo

Every party has a nasty wing. The actual nasty, extreme right-wing is using this issue as a cover, I think.

Because the fucking Labour are silently betraying the working class, yet again

Yes. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm probably misremembering a classic old expression along the lines of "liberals understand everything except people that don't understand them"
I was almost Young Conservative (on their mailing list, anyway) and I do a lot of practical and financial things to help society (a compulsion to volunteer which massively irritates DH who considers himself a socialist... go figure). It's so dangerous and simplistic to lump tories as a homogeneous group, I'm lovely

I know a lot of Republicans in the US through a hobby I'm involved in, they are probably more right than most people on this board. They are all pretty normal, they do tend to volunteer a lot more than my overall left leaning family and co-workers, they are well-educated. They have different ideas about what kinds of government and economic policies actually work, and also about what the trade-offs of using government funded social programs as the main way to solve social issues are.

@JosephineGH That's not an example from current board though, is it?

I still posit that there's more that unites us, women, than divides us.

Do you disagree?