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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Park run email today - "Living as myself"

325 replies

wantmorenow · 27/07/2022 17:47

blog.parkrun.com/uk/2022/07/27/living-as-myself/

Today of all days after Allison's victory!

Another form asking us to choose a gender or prefer not to say when I just want the word sex. Or non-believer in gender identity woo.

Who do we email to put our protected beliefs to?

OP posts:
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12
Gobbolinothekitchencat · 28/07/2022 10:06

There is nothing to stop people registering as whatever gender (it’s listed as gender in Park Run) they want…although I think it’s only two in England.

it would annoy me, I am a runner, a plodder but at Park Run I tend to do okay for my age group and as a woman. Compared to men my own age of a similar ability, I am rubbish. When I have been a volunteer at an event which averages 150 runners per week, the top 20 runners are male, then a couple of young woman, then loads more men then into the mixed plodders.

Park Run is wonderfully inclusive, there are walkers, trip hazard toddlers, dogs and lots of runners obsessed with PB who use Park Run as a warm-up.

It will mess up the stats if it becomes widespread but then most runners use their PB to monitor progress. It would really upset me if this became widespread in paid for events, as it would just be depressing to be wiped out by a male bodied person the same age but probably not as fit. I enjoyed a women only event a few years back, mainly as I finished higher even through the elite runners completed it in half my time. It was the best atmosphere at any running event, lack of men and small children helped.

I think the best solution would be to record gender id along with sex but it not compulsory to complete. Although regulars would soon know who was trans and a regular runner then probably recalculate the stats themselves for own use.

LindaEllen · 28/07/2022 10:21

WaveyHair · 27/07/2022 18:12

Seriously, gender should not make a difference to these events. It would be better if there was just a name and time. Parkruns are not meant to be competitive (I believe) so why have all this male\female and age categories? People should be allowed to opt out of the 'ranking'.

There is that option. Just run the course without a barcode.. There are plenty of 5k routes you can run without being timed officially or ranked.

Craver · 28/07/2022 10:32

You have too much time on your hands.

KitKatKathy · 28/07/2022 14:40

Our female parkrun record is set by a transwomen. It is pretty unattainable for women, but my god, were I not so old, I'd damn well make it my life's work to try...

FrancescaContini · 28/07/2022 14:44

“Living as myself “ 😂

Sunfriedegg · 28/07/2022 15:23

WillitFit · 28/07/2022 09:51

The age rated scores are based on official athletics data, e.g. World records, where things like sex and age have to be proved to enter, not parkrun results where none of this data has ever been verified

And your point is??
do you mean that because I’m not either an elite athlete or male, my feelings don’t count?

MrsJamin · 28/07/2022 15:43

KitKatKathy · 28/07/2022 14:40

Our female parkrun record is set by a transwomen. It is pretty unattainable for women, but my god, were I not so old, I'd damn well make it my life's work to try...

That's awful @KitKatKathy - please can you get in contact with parkrun HQ and point this out, saying how unfair it is and how that female record is totally unattainable for 99% of women now. (the 1% being elite athletes, probably). Oh the gaul of mediocre men taking women's hard-won accolades.

MrsJamin · 28/07/2022 15:44

Craver · 28/07/2022 10:32

You have too much time on your hands.

Who does? Whose voice are you trying to quieten and belittle here?

megletthesecond · 28/07/2022 17:16

Mrs parkrun need to know about it. It's miserable for women who will be chasing it.

megletthesecond · 28/07/2022 17:17

Sorry, that was to kit.

Dimpsey · 28/07/2022 18:23

I ran a local 'paid for' race last night and for the first time, I saw a transwoman competing.

When I looked at the results I noticed that they had entered in the 'ladies' category using a female name. I don't know whether it was by accident but they came dead last in the LV35 age category. I looked on their RunBritain rankings and they had run a 5k in 19:10 in July 2021 (which is a pretty strong time for a man of that age) It occurred to me that they were 'softening up' the race administrators by deliberately coming nearly last in the race. Of course no one will complain if they haven't been bumped down the list but in a few months or years they could ramp up to their natural speed and if any one complains they can immediately say 'oh I've been competing for years and no one has complained before' and by then it is probably too difficult to do anything about it.

This is why I think that it is so important to write to parkrun now so that women retain the correct competitive categories.

AuntieStella · 28/07/2022 19:24

The usual reason for running a noticeably slower time is rehabilitating injury or post-illness return - there'll be half a dozen or more in those circs in every small/medium event.

Common things are common. Conspiracy substantially less so.

Plus of course random bad luck. In the space of three months I ran a personal worst (second last in category) and a PB (trail) (won category) in official races on the same course. Now I'm wondering if people thought I had an agenda, rather than just a day when everything wrong.

AuntieStella · 28/07/2022 19:29

This is why I think that it is so important to write to parkrun now so that women retain the correct competitive categories

Recommend you find a different way to phrase it. parkrun does not consider itself competitive, nor is it run under competitive athletics rules, so that's the sort of response you'll get if you are asking about competition. As they say every briefing 'it's a run, not a race'

FatBettyintheCoop · 28/07/2022 19:31

KitKatKathy · 28/07/2022 14:40

Our female parkrun record is set by a transwomen. It is pretty unattainable for women, but my god, were I not so old, I'd damn well make it my life's work to try...

Christ! That’s completely unfair to the other 99% of women runners in your local Parkrun.

How can they not see this??

BobinogBobbleHat · 28/07/2022 19:39

KitKatKathy · 28/07/2022 14:40

Our female parkrun record is set by a transwomen. It is pretty unattainable for women, but my god, were I not so old, I'd damn well make it my life's work to try...

I wonder if you are local to me. Ours is too.

PaleBlueMoonlight · 28/07/2022 20:08

This idea that the data is not verified/verifiable or that people could always lie is a bit of red herring. The difference between now and a few short years ago is that back then this kind of thing was seen as lying and there was social pressure not to lie. If someone mentioned they had deliberately put themselves in the wrong sex or age category, the vast majority of people would have told them that that was not on; now an increasing proportion of people would either cheer it on or say that there is no harm comes of it. We are creating social conditions that make this stuff far more socially acceptable and therefore even if the rules were clear that you had to record your sex not your gender for the purposes of ranking, we would no longer be able to rely on the social contract or self-policing. It is the same problem as we now have with any kind of single sex provision.

Truthlikeness · 28/07/2022 20:44

RandomlyThrownTogether · 28/07/2022 10:04

So anyone who doesn't have a gender is a bit stuffed now, are they?

Apparently I do now have a gender as parkrun has taken it upon itself to convert my female sex to a female gender. Rather presumptuous of it...

MrsJamin · 28/07/2022 20:57

It was always gender. However they have converted this piece of data into gender identity - see the options now under "gender". Male / Female / another gender identity / Prefer not to say.
According to www.parkrun.com/privacy/ it says Gender which is blatantly untrue and they are getting into dodgy territory not having updated this and not informing millions of people that these options are changed and now it has assigned millions of people with a gender identity.
I am LIVID about this.

TopKnotch · 28/07/2022 23:19

We are a parkrunning family and all run or volunteer weekly.

Whilst I hear the arguments that this is harmless, or inclusive, or doesn't matter as it's not a race, I disagree.

Results are ranked by men and women, and you only have to watch a parkrun to see that biology makes a huge difference in running! Coming first female in your age category is a massive achievement - at our local runs the first 20-30 runners are usually male, with v few women in the first 40, and maybe only 1 or 2 running sub 25 mins, unlike male representation. Why should my daughters and I have our results obfuscated? It's not happening to the male runners is it?

Having to fill forms in and choose your gender identity when you don't have one really bothers me. When you don't identify as a women but you are one. When saying you identify with the social characteristics expected of your sex feels like a massive insult and like being forced to agree to something you vehemently reject. It makes me sad and angry and feel quite desperate.

As do coordinated emails and social media posts all shouting about this, reinforcing how this is something we've just all got to get on board with else we're NOT KIND.

I'm so UNKIND I've volunteered hundreds of times for this organisation. I have the t-shirts. But this forced acceptance and coercion to state things I don't believe and to overtly link me to this ideology makes me want to have nothing more to do with them.

CalaisBae · 28/07/2022 23:27

megletthesecond · 27/07/2022 18:21

Heaven help them if I'm placed 2nd in my age group and beaten by a transwoman. I'd like to race my own sex. Not someone who has been through male puberty.

This

sashh · 29/07/2022 03:17

Truthlikeness · 28/07/2022 20:44

Apparently I do now have a gender as parkrun has taken it upon itself to convert my female sex to a female gender. Rather presumptuous of it...

I contacted my landlord about this, they are a Housing Association and had my gender as 'female' they have changed it to 'not stated', I need to contact them again.

I WILL get them to either say 'sex' or put my gender as 'none'.

MrsJamin · 29/07/2022 05:15

Apparently parkrun age grading is done by age and sex support.parkrun.com/hc/en-us/articles/200565263-What-is-age-grading- which allows runners to compare times. They aren't consistent at all! They still think of gender, sex and gender identity as the same thing! Such fools. Thinking of just asking them to delete my account.

Treezylover · 29/07/2022 06:32

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Do you really think your parkrun is going to be so overrun with trans athletes that it’s going to skew your results?

Treezylover · 29/07/2022 06:38

Dimpsey · 28/07/2022 18:23

I ran a local 'paid for' race last night and for the first time, I saw a transwoman competing.

When I looked at the results I noticed that they had entered in the 'ladies' category using a female name. I don't know whether it was by accident but they came dead last in the LV35 age category. I looked on their RunBritain rankings and they had run a 5k in 19:10 in July 2021 (which is a pretty strong time for a man of that age) It occurred to me that they were 'softening up' the race administrators by deliberately coming nearly last in the race. Of course no one will complain if they haven't been bumped down the list but in a few months or years they could ramp up to their natural speed and if any one complains they can immediately say 'oh I've been competing for years and no one has complained before' and by then it is probably too difficult to do anything about it.

This is why I think that it is so important to write to parkrun now so that women retain the correct competitive categories.

Feels like you spent far too long scrutinising and stalking someone else’s performance, tbh.

McDuffy · 29/07/2022 06:44

Only needs one trans athlete identifying into the female category to skew the results if they're faster than me Hmm

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