Park run email today - "Living as myself"

[wantmorenow]

blog.parkrun.com/uk/2022/07/27/living-as-myself/

Today of all days after Allison's victory!

Another form asking us to choose a gender or prefer not to say when I just want the word sex. Or non-believer in gender identity woo.

Who do we email to put our protected beliefs to?

I’m think of living as myself as an 82 year old man. Once the stats for men get messed up with they might pay attention

And when no one pays any attention?

I don’t think nuance should be allowed. Nuance is how we got to letting sexoffenders to identify themselves into womens prisons. They are constantly looking for weaknesses and this be kind and nuance stuff is a weakness in our boundaries.

I’m about to go on a park run and I’m mad with them, not sure if I even want to go now. How is that kind. It’s not kind to my feelings. Every single time a man decides he wants to take something from women, it affects us. Nuance my arse, he’s pushing boundaries a and it’s take take take. My bloody feelings are hurt but it’s nuance so they don’t matter.
and what about my physical self when I get pushed out of a seniority womens event because of the male bodies elbowing me out of the way.

It is not supposed to be competitive, although I know it can be enjoyed that way, and the rare trans woman identifying as female and having first finishes or course records would be annoying. But for the vast majority of us it is about PBs, ‘ridiculous’ challenges (as someone called them above - personally think they are fun) and mostly community.

If parkrun wants to be inclusive, is not competitive and is only about personal bests, then presumably they only tell people their own times.

That's not the case though, is it?

Copied from their homepage:

Female record: Charlotte ARTER – 15:49 ( 1 Feb 2020)
Male record: Andrew BADDELEY – 13:48 (11 Aug 2012)
Age graded record: Fauja SINGH - 179.04% 38:34 (31 Mar 2012)

And this list of male and female first finishers:

www.parkrun.org.uk/results/firstfinishers/

It's not okay to allow men to take women's places and pretend that's fair.

Well I didn’t go, I feel alienated, Hows that for inclusivity. There aren’t many venues which welcome women in their 60’s who have just started running,

Have you told the organisers why you didn't go? You should.

Well I did my parkrun this morning and as I'm now a 'prefer not to say' I didn't get a gender pos or an age grading, but I did get a PB so I'm quite pleased!
I for one am happy with this compromise.

I was also the pp who called the challenges 'ridiculous' - it wasn't meant in a negative way because I also think they are fun and inventive and inspiring for lots of people! A lot of my friends think doing parkrun is ridiculous full stop...

Well good for you @Ihaventgottimeforthis but there are many on this thread that aren't happy.
I haven't been going much lately but this is really not going to make me want to support it. I need to take some time and send an email, like we all should, to voice our unhappiness.

Well done.

Funny that our monitors are on this thread. I got deleted by using unflattering language to say that, where Womens rights and boundaries are at stake, there is no nuance. We either define by sex or we are erased.

I do parkrun intermittently and have been first female a few times (a while ago admittedly)
I would feel aggrieved if I was "demoted" from first female finisher because a transwoman finished ahead.
I feel sure that most of the people who came to the decision, or decided it was of no consequence, were men, because their results or times will not be compromised. (A transman is not likely to unfairly skew the men's results)

The thing with parkrun is that while it isn't officially a race, a lot of people do treat it as such as @ferretface explained, it started as a time trial eg competitive. Its inclusive in that there isnt generally a time cut off, and (mostly) parkruns are accommodating of all standards and allow young children, pushchairs, dogs etc, which would not necessarily be allowed in official "races".

I never have, and never will be, the fastest woman. I'm usually slower than over half the women in my age group. Yet I still treat it as a race and want to see how I've done compared to the others (not including men).

This

"I feel sure that most of the people who came to the decision, or decided it was of no consequence, were men, because their results or times will not be compromised. (A transman is not likely to unfairly skew the men's results)"

Exactly @Fizbosshoes - the fact that it cannot possibly impact on men is what adds to the sense of injustice. It is unfair because the lack of clarity on results only disadvantages women. It is a discriminatory practice about which we are not supposed to mind or complain because "inclusion".

I attended this weekend with a sense of unease, and did not wear my t-shirt, as I'm not sure I want to be an ambassador for a brand that is prepared to disregard my feelings and opinion in such a coercive way.

I would feel aggrieved if I was "demoted" from first female finisher because a transwoman finished ahead

Yes me too. I rare finish first lady, but I can make it onto the "podium" occasionally. Yesterday one of my clubmates was 3rd lady at our local parkrun. I was 4th. I'd be really cross if we'd been pushed in 4th and 5th by a male-bodied person. No it doesn't matter, it's only a timed run, but it does matter.

I did see this article and I thought it said there was a non-binary category. But maybe that was someone else's comment. If there is, transwomen should tick that box (entirely up to transmen if they want to).

The Parke course record is held by a transwoman but perhaps she will reclassify herself as non-binary and an actual woman can get the record back.

Precisely this!

It would be interesting to hear from a TW who enters any sporting event as a woman.
How do they justify it? They must know the controversy and upset it causes.
Is it an inbuilt sense of male entitlement that they just can't recognise? Or is it a feeling that they truly are are woman and it's just fate that gave them an athletically superior body and everyone needs to just suck it up?

Seriously, I'd be really interested to know.

There was that interview with Emily Bridges...

I wouldn't attend any parkrun where the female course record was held by a transwoman. I'm unlikely ever to trouble the course records unless it's a very new parkrun but still, it's a point of principle. I don't spend 7 1/2 hours grafting away at my running each week to have achievements diluted in that way. No thankyou.

If they deleted the course records and the ranked results, I'd feel differently. Then it is just about individual achievement. I dare parkrun to do it and see how that goes for them. Mostly, it will make a lot of men quite angry and reduce participation and so they will never dare to do it.

It is difficult to judge tone in text. The challenges are ridiculous in a good way😀.

Parke is local to me and the trans woman in question has some publicity online. It does make it personal but I guess that works both ways and it is interesting to read her human story too and where she is coming from.

I think parkrun is a bit different and the inclusivity is more important than the competition but I guess I am speaking as someone who will never be anywhere near first finisher so it does affect me less and I do get what many of you are saying too.

As others above have (pretty much) said - you can't have it both ways. If Parkrun is just about the fun, the inclusion etc etc - then STOP giving ANY results, and stop breaking them down by age and sex or gender; indeed, why record these at all then? (Though we can still see who comes first, of course...). This would probably piss off a number of Parkrunners of BOTH sexes/genders, and some would likely stop bothering, so they might have to take a hit on that, but it would give a clear stance on their aims.

But that's not what they're doing, is it? They STILL have the results, rankings and course records, they're just allowing one group - the one with the physical advantage - to "identify" into the OTHER group at will (sure, women could identify into the male results, but where's the point in that?). So one group - males - still get the benefits of fair competition, motivation when they do well, and encouragement to improve. The other group - women and girls - lose out on all that as soon as a TW or two decide to "identify" into their category; and once again, some (but only the females this time) are likely to decide not to bother any more. So this is treating women/girls less favourably than men/boys - and there are words for this; the most obvious being "sexism" and "discrimination". Not very "inclusive" at all, Parkrun!