So mentioning females with reference to menopause is terfy..

[Metabigot]

Part of my job to review the menopause policy at work. Person drafting it had written people as the main word throughout. I suggested changing to females and was told this was 'terfy'

Luckily as this person works for me I referenced maya forstater ruling and an example of how this could be seen as inappropriate language for the workplace. But mentioning a biological function that only females experience is now seen as 'terfy' ? Wtf???

After discussion with my boss they relented to ' colleague' with women and transmen/ non binary in the preamble but seems female is off limits now..

So what do we call people who we used to call women then used to call female?

It's not even correct if it had said

Most women will experience menopausal symptoms.

That’s my response too @PraiseBee . I’d rather be on the side of reality than some gender woo nonsense created for the benefit of males. .

I was in a meeting about maternity and perinatal services the other day. The word woman wasn’t uttered once.

We're focusing on 'Women's Health' in a well-being group monthly meeting at work. We are able to ask anonymous questions to be answered in the session. I asked how we can challenge the language around women and stop the erasure of the word woman. Eg cervix havers, womb carriers, people with a vagina etc. the bloke who runs it says we can't discuss that as we have no trans representation in the group so it would be unfair.

I'd be raising a grievance.

"Actually I refuse to identify as a woman until the original meaning is restored. If its a feeling, I have no idea if I am one. I don't know how else I'd feel if I wasn't one."

Yes, this is how I feel as well. It's at the root of the point I make quite a lot, that trans ideology at heart has this huge disconnect in that it asserts Womanhood (and Manhood) is different to what we previously assumed in order to allow access to those groups for trans people but doesn't realise that in changing the definition they change it for everyone, not just trans people, and therefore the groups that trans people want to be part of do not, by their own rules, exist. It's just social inertia that makes them appear to, and the more TRAs/ideologists get their view of reality accepted, the weaker that inertia becomes.

In short, current trans ideology relies on society simultaneously agreeing the old sex-based groups don't matter while still ensuring social structures for women that on exist because of them continue unchanged.

The irony is that if they dropped TWAW, TMAM and instead went for "trans people are people of one sex who for various reasons are more comfortable being seen as the opposite sex", and focused less on the absolute demand to access all opposite sex resources by right of gender and more on practical steps to support trans people to coexist with the opposite sex while respecting the sex differences when they matter, there would be no contradiction.

My genuine answer to the question "are you a woman?" now is "I don't know. It depends what definition of woman you are using."

That's an interesting point, Eresh, hadn't even crossed my mind to raise a grievance. Almost everyone has pronouns in their email sig at my work place, to give you an idea of the sort of place it is.

Send them this video of Elaine Miller who is an expert in pelvic health explaining about trans menopause, 30 years too early and why that might be a negative thing.

It seems to me that there is no science, just straplines.

That's an interesting point, Eresh, hadn't even crossed my mind to raise a grievance. Almost everyone has pronouns in their email sig at my work place, to give you an idea of the sort of place it is.

You have my sympathy.

Don't worry, Google to the rescue.

Please, I beg you, don't stop using the words "woman", "women" and female to describe yourself, @Metabigot. If we don't assert our rights, we will lose them. Giving way is giving credence to and legitimising the nonsensical definitions of these words in order to include males. Nobody outside a certain bubble subscribes to any definition of woman other than the correct one - adult human female. It's also the legal definition.

OK but if I get any ' what do you identify as' questions I'm going to play games with 'what do you mean? How would I know ?.type responses where possible.

@Metabigot
😆
Have fun!

You are correct but there are a number of (v sexist) assumptions at work here

Consider a statement beginning "Women going through menopause might have symptoms of..."

Now IF woman = adult human female this makes perfect sense and if the correct wording to say what we mean BUT for people walking around with an understanding of the word which is different it doesn't make sense and isn't correct

Try substituting Woman = glamourous diva if trying to understand SO we say women and they hear something else;

Person 1: Glamourous Divas going through the menopause might have symptoms of...
Person 2: (what they mean) No No I'm going to need to stop you there to point out that not all women going through the menopause are glamourous divas, and it's important that women who aren't glamourous divas know that they're included valid, remembered, and don't feel under any additional pressure to conform to any particular beauty standards.

What we hear - generally totally offensive nonsense of a deeply sexist nature.

it is a true universally acknowledged that search and replace can make nonsense of any document.

If pushed into such a conversation you could say something like : I myself do not have any kind of strong innate immutable understanding that I have a cis gender gender identity, or indeed a trans one, just an understanding that, like it or not, the biology I'm walking through the world with makes me a woman. So if you wish to prioritise GI over sex for everyone in all circumstances I feel rather confused and excluded. I suppose you could say if trying to classify me under this system that I'm questioning because as I apparently 'lack' a GI which is strongly male or female I could describe myself as non binary or agender but I've never found a coherent and accessible explanation of the difference between the two.

I could, but I think the what do you mean line of questioning is more umpactful depending on the context/ situation obviously.

Otherwise far too easy for them to shut their ears.
This way they are faced with the bullshit themselves.

Also it's more fun as a PP said.

If you can't use the word 'woman' or 'female' in your menopause policy then I doubt the menopause policy is going to do anything much for those who experience menopause.

Unless the purpose of the policy is exclusion of the half the population that at some point will experience menopause? Is that it? Is it deliberately exclusionary? I suspect that's illegal.

(btw not aimed at you OP who are doing sterling work in a clearly misogynistic organisation. Colleagues FFS.)

You do indeed have to be female to experience the "joys" of menopause!

Birthing Parent Nature -what a Terfy bigot she turned out to be. 😂

I became self-employed about 12 years ago. Luckily my work is not put at risk by any views I may or may not hold, so I'm free to be completely open about being GC.

I used to be a manager in a very corporate environment where individuality was frowned upon deeply, and everyone was expected to toe the company line without question. I have no doubts at all that inclusive language will be the order of the day, even when it obscures the actual meaning of the text.

DP started a new job fairly recently and had to go through all the mandatory inclusiveness and equality sessions. Very heavy on the pronouns and trans inclusiveness, but barely a mention on other types of diversity, equality and rights. I think I would be exploding with the effort of keeping it all in. DP is very GC but knows he has to bite his tongue because he needs the job.

Being self employed can be so hard at times but I've never been as grateful as I am now that I don't have to put up with this bullshit. The demands from the TRA brigade have me absolutely raging.