I am embracing virtue signalling pronouns in emails

[MsFogi]

I have realised I have made too many assumptions about gender over the years. I had always assumed that Paul (name changed of course) in my company was a man simply on the basis of his appearance (well over 6 foot, well built, big beard, low voice that only someone with an Adam's apple and whose balls have dropped could have). Imagine my relief to find that I have not been misgendering him for over a decade because he has helpfully added his pronouns to his email auto signature - they are he/him/his. There is no company diktat to add pronouns on emails so clearly this is important to Paul or maybe he has been misgendered recently.

So, I thought I would ensure that Paul was not offended on a Teams meeting this afternoon and kicked off the meeting by asking everyone to note that Paul's pronouns are he/him/his and that given that he has stated these that everyone please be sensitive to ensuring that they use them. No one said anything so I think they all took it on board, no one misgendered Paul and I like to think that his move to include his pronouns at work has been embraced in my meeting. Maybe as a result others that attended the meeting will add theirs to their auto signatures too.

So when you refer to a trans woman as a man, or male, are you implying they don’t believe their gender is that of a woman?

The other alternative is that people don't believe in "gender" and only think sex is reasonable. Which biological sex are MTF trans people?

Obviously I disagree with you on that, but don’t we all basically think we’re the ones whose views reflect reality?

So you think women are women on the same chemical side as women?

Just say women. Those that are CIS if that's what they think will know who you mean.

Sorry, I don't understand. What's the problem with referring to trans women? I say trans women when I mean ... trans women. I don't need to accept the whole TRA kit and kaboodle of cis-people and innate gender and what have you to know trans women exist. I generally avoid using the word "women" in discussions about gender exactly because of the lack of clear agreement on whether that group includes trans women or not.

Even have I ever referred to a male who wishes to present as a woman as a man? I have not. That would be rude. By saying they are male, well, that’s just biological fact. If thy weren’t male they would not be wishing to present as a woman, they would be a woman. Woman is the word for adult human female, so no, they probably don’t believe their gender is woman. As it’s not a gender. I

Obviously I disagree with you on that

On what basis?

but don’t we all basically think we’re the ones whose views reflect reality?

Yes, people who think the earth was created 4000 years ago do too. What's your point? Can you define "woman" and explain how a male can be one?

Apologies I need to rephrase that! "I generally avoid using the word "women" in discussions about gender" is clearly bollocks, I do it all the time.

What I meant to say is "I generally avoid using the word "women" to refer to a group of people in discussions about gender (unless I'm explicitly talking about the impact of changing the membership of that group on the people it originally referred to)"

I've never heard of a transwomen who objects to being called a transwomen, although I'll bet they're out there. There are some tras who get incensed about the " " or lack between 'trans' and 'woman'. I think it's because with, trans modifies the word, like tall or short, but still a woman. Without they're not women, they're transwomen.

Anyway, I don't like 'cis' for the usual reasons and because I always initially think it's something to do with home insurance.

Cishet, is nearly as bad. I kinda like the Egyptian mythology vibe, which ties neatly with the whole semi-religious or outright cultist flavour of the gender doctrine.

I just think of subcontractors up under the NHbC scheme when I see CIS.

Cishet, is nearly as bad. I kinda like the Egyptian mythology vibe, which ties neatly with the whole semi-religious or outright cultist flavour of the gender doctrine.

It has a certain French sounding sophistication if you pronounce it "see-shay"

Aah there we have it, the misogynistic slip that places trans women above women.

The claim that ‘gender’ doesn’t exist to me seems a nonsense. If you look at all the differences between men and women in the real world which are nothing to do with biology, what do you call those aspects of who we are if not gender?

Socially enforced bollocks that needs to be eradicated is what I call gender. You?

That would be 'personality'.

The claim that ‘gender’ doesn’t exist to me seems a nonsense. If you look at all the differences between men and women in the real world which are nothing to do with biology, what do you call those aspects of who we are if not gender?

There's a huge leap of faith between recognising that there are sex stereotypes and ways people think about males and females (gender) and deciding that there must be a free floating "gender" identity that we all have.

You are conflating two separate things.

Sorry for the confusing typo, I meant “refer to trans women as men, or as TIMS”

If you take away your personal ideological belief that there are these mysterious internal senses of "gender" we all have, you are just left with sex, the reality of life in a male or female body, and what people think about members of both sexes. It's all based on sex.

so any evidence or personal experience of women regarding women’s greater empathy, better verbal skills and emotionally open ways with connecting with one another can be reduced to ‘sex stereotypes’? I believe these things are socially learned, and often exaggerated or unhelpfully generalised, but I do believe they are real and amount to more than ‘sex stereotypes’.

I certainly don’t believe gender is ‘free floating’

so any evidence or personal experience of women regarding women’s greater empathy, better verbal skills and emotionally open ways with connecting with one another can be reduced to ‘sex stereotypes’? I believe these things are socially learned, and often exaggerated or unhelpfully generalised, but I do believe they are real and amount to more than ‘sex stereotypes’.

What do you mean by "real"? There may be evolutionary advantages to be gained from such behaviours, possibly. It's extremely difficult to unpick it from millennia of female socialisation. But it doesn't mean that those who don't display these qualities are the opposite sex, does it?

Do men who identify as women also have all these qualities, as for the record, the prison stats show that they are 3 times as likely to be in there for sexual offences than men who do not identify as women. If gender was a thing, would men who identify as women gender wise also show these qualities or not?

so any evidence or personal experience of women regarding women’s greater empathy, better verbal skills and emotionally open ways with connecting with one another can be reduced to ‘sex stereotypes’? I believe these things are socially learned, and often exaggerated or unhelpfully generalised, but I do believe they are real and amount to more than ‘sex stereotypes’.

Sexist much? Is this why the TRA are always telling women to be kind? They believe we’re inherently nice? If that’s the case, and TW are women, why are most of the TRA who claim to be women sending death threats,rape threats and hurling abuse at women? You don’t see females doing that do you? So you’ve just proved that using your own argument, TW are not women

I certainly don’t believe gender is ‘free floating’

What do you think it is then? So far you've only given the socially constructed stuff as an example, when for it to be true that "trans women are women who aren't cis women" there's a magical thinking process going on. What reality is this statement based on?

If that’s the case, and TW are women, why are most of the TRA who claim to be women sending death threats,rape threats and hurling abuse at women? You don’t see females doing that do you? So you’ve just proved that using your own argument, TW are not women

Excellent point.

but I do believe they are real and amount to more than ‘sex stereotypes’.

How exactly are those things “more than” sex stereotypes? Remember that stereotypes are frequently true.

And could you explain what greater empathy, enhanced verbal skills, and emotionally open ways of connecting have got to do with the concept of “gender identity?” Because you have been consistently conflating the sex-stereotype meaning of gender with the “gender identity” meaning. Is it your contention that transwomen are more empathetic and verbally gifted than the average man?