I am embracing virtue signalling pronouns in emails

[MsFogi]

I have realised I have made too many assumptions about gender over the years. I had always assumed that Paul (name changed of course) in my company was a man simply on the basis of his appearance (well over 6 foot, well built, big beard, low voice that only someone with an Adam's apple and whose balls have dropped could have). Imagine my relief to find that I have not been misgendering him for over a decade because he has helpfully added his pronouns to his email auto signature - they are he/him/his. There is no company diktat to add pronouns on emails so clearly this is important to Paul or maybe he has been misgendered recently.

So, I thought I would ensure that Paul was not offended on a Teams meeting this afternoon and kicked off the meeting by asking everyone to note that Paul's pronouns are he/him/his and that given that he has stated these that everyone please be sensitive to ensuring that they use them. No one said anything so I think they all took it on board, no one misgendered Paul and I like to think that his move to include his pronouns at work has been embraced in my meeting. Maybe as a result others that attended the meeting will add theirs to their auto signatures too.

[WillMcAvoy]

Plus I think if you’re a manager or senior staff you’ve behaved a bit unprofessionally by deliberately embarrassing your staff

Can you explain how OP embarrassed Paul exactly?

[WillMcAvoy]

so she has made a point of making him look silly in front of a group by pointing out the obvious, that he is male

I'm not following you. PAUL pointed out the obvious, that he is male. He does so in every email, so possibly is pointing this out many many times a day. How is OP repeating it embarassing to him, exactly?

[Kanaloa]

@WillMcAvoy

Plus I think if you’re a manager or senior staff you’ve behaved a bit unprofessionally by deliberately embarrassing your staff

Can you explain how OP embarrassed Paul exactly?

I’ve already explained. He followed along with a silly trend (understandable as there is pressure to conform to this type of thing at the moment) and she made a point of making him look silly by telling everyone who could obviously see him and already know him, that he is male and to use male pronouns.

She then came to post it online and encourage others to say wow how great you are op, thinking she was very clever. But in fact to me it doesn’t come across clever and witty, but like someone in a position of power trying to make others feel small.

[Ndd135632]

@Kanaloa

I mean I’m not a fan of pronoun talk but presumably he put it in his email because he may at times email people who do not know he is a 6ft well built man with a deep voice. I have a contact at uni who has a name that could be either way (like Alex) and actually the pronouns were helpful in that case as I knew who to expect.

And I will henceforth state my nationality, race and sexuality just so you know exactly what to expect when you meet me. My name is usually from another nationality but hurumph, I am not French I am English. I would have been soooooooo annoyed had you not expected that.

[HipTightOnions]

she has made a point of making him look silly in front of a group by pointing out the obvious, that he is male

Yet he isn't making himself look silly when he points out the obvious?

[mrshoho]

@MrsRuggles

Maybe this has been misunderstood, or people are being deliberately obtuse. Indicating one's pronouns in email signatures is not to ensure that one is not misgendered. For cis people with names not clearly of one gender or another it does have that advantage. What your burly chap was quite likely doing was showing his support of trans people who are more often misgendered. It normalises the practice. Good for Paul.

what's wrong with Mr Alex Woo or Ms Alex Woo? That's what we used to use and worked ok. 🤯

[Kanaloa]

@HipTightOnions

she has made a point of making him look silly in front of a group by pointing out the obvious, that he is male

Yet he isn't making himself look silly when he points out the obvious?

I’ve already said (twice) that he is. He’s joined in a silly trend and it’s ridiculous. However, it could be pointed out that it isn’t necessary, or brought up appropriately if it’s against company policy. Making a big thing of it to point out that it’s silly isn’t professional behaviour from a manager. The same as you wouldn’t point out someone underachieving in front of an entire staff meeting - you’d do so appropriately.

[Livinginanotherworld]

@nocoolnamesleft

Please do not use the slur cis.

I agree…dreadful word, they are people, not cis people !
OP I applaud you 😂😂

[Kanaloa]

@Ndd135632

And I will henceforth state my nationality, race and sexuality just so you know exactly what to expect when you meet me. My name is usually from another nationality but hurumph, I am not French I am English. I would have been soooooooo annoyed had you not expected that.

As it goes I had to meet this person not long after. For personal reasons at that time I found it very comforting to know it was a woman I’d be meeting with and not a man. I wasn’t suggesting anyone would be ‘so annoyed’ if they were different to my expectations.

[mrshoho]

I'm also offended at CIS. Please don't. I'm a woman no more no less.

[HipTightOnions]

Making a big thing of it to point out that it’s silly isn’t professional behaviour from a manager.

It sounds as though OP played it with a straight bat.

Whether the other meeting attendees saw this as a dig, a reasonable response, or completely incomprehensible, would depend on their position on the issue.

It's a neutral way of bringing the issue to people's attention.

[Ndd135632]

@Kanaloa from now on I will indeed then state my race, nationality and sexuality just so you are 100% sure. Why is it only only gender these new ‘rules’ apply to?

[StillWeRise]

to all those telling off the OP
Paul decided to do this- without any prompting from his managers- what did he expect to happen?
If Paul was new, or very junior or otherwise at a disadvantage- or even if he had a feminine presentation/physique then OP may have been unkind.
Really if grown ups choose to engage in this nonsense they have to expect to be taken at face value.

[surreygirl1987]

Plus I think if you’re a manager or senior staff you’ve behaved a bit unprofessionally by deliberately embarrassing your staff. If you don’t want pronouns using or it’s against company policy then you need to address it appropriately with ‘please do not include anything other than appropriate company email signature’ not point someone out and try to be funny by embarrassing them when for all you know they’re just trying to keep up/follow what they think needs to be done.
Agreed. Sounds like you were mocking his use of pronouns? This sounds like something a deeply unpleasant colleague of mind would do actually.

[SamphirethePogoingStickerist]

@MrsRuggles

Maybe this has been misunderstood, or people are being deliberately obtuse. Indicating one's pronouns in email signatures is not to ensure that one is not misgendered. For cis people with names not clearly of one gender or another it does have that advantage. What your burly chap was quite likely doing was showing his support of trans people who are more often misgendered. It normalises the practice. Good for Paul.

Please, don't use the term cis. It is objectionable in its assumptions and misgenders me and many other people too. If you are serious about believing people when they tell you their preferred identity you will cease to use the term, here if nowhere else.

I have a name that is used by people of both sexes. Everyone refers to me by my name in emails and to my face.

Years ago I worked as a support specialist in a very niche area and all the clients across the many arabic, muslim countries I provided support for called me Mr. Even on the phone after hearing my voice, or after meeting me in person. My sex is really obvious then, I am very large of boob. I didn't die. I didn't feel that I didn't exist. I understood that Mr was intended as an honorific, a nod to the fact that I was the expert, they the ones seeking guidance.

I didn't mind that but I do vehemently object to the term cis. The first was understandable, the latter is you and others like you shoving your agenda into my life. No Thank You!

[Wouldloveanother]

Legend! That’s a brilliant idea!

[Tania64]

@Kanaloa

Plus I think if you’re a manager or senior staff you’ve behaved a bit unprofessionally by deliberately embarrassing your staff. If you don’t want pronouns using or it’s against company policy then you need to address it appropriately with ‘please do not include anything other than appropriate company email signature’ not point someone out and try to be funny by embarrassing them when for all you know they’re just trying to keep up/follow what they think needs to be done.

I think Kanaloa needs to get a SOH!

[Kanaloa]

@Tania64

I think Kanaloa needs to get a SOH!

Oh yes, I see. ‘It’s just a joke! It’s only bantz! Can’t you take a joke/don’t you have a sense of humour?’ But I guess for me laughing AT someone is just never funny. Especially when you’re their manager. Plus it was quite literally not funny in any other way - it wasn’t witty or clever or amusing. It was passive aggressive and mean.

[VerveClique]

Even if Paul likes to be referred to by others as he/him/his, how can we know what Paul’s gender is? Maybe he should have specifically told everyone that as well, just in case. There should really be no assumptions on this kind of thing.

[bellac11]

@Kanaloa

Plus on top of that then posting it for kudos makes it clear op was not simply trying to be understanding of his pronouns.

What is there to 'understand'

Its like someone putting their star sign after their name.

I havent found many men putting these on, its mainly women where I work and in multi agency communications like schools and our legal department.

[FOJN]

she has made a point of making him look silly in front of a group by pointing out the obvious, that he is male

I don't think Paul needed the assistance of OP to make himself look silly, that was all he own work.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

@MrsRuggles

Maybe this has been misunderstood, or people are being deliberately obtuse. Indicating one's pronouns in email signatures is not to ensure that one is not misgendered. For cis people with names not clearly of one gender or another it does have that advantage. What your burly chap was quite likely doing was showing his support of trans people who are more often misgendered. It normalises the practice. Good for Paul.

It costs 'Paul' and other natal males nothing to do this 'allyship' stuff. As I have already posted, on the other hand, it would be foolish for a female member of staff to draw attention to her sex as she would very likely be treated worse than male colleagues as as result.

Why is it OK to pressure women into doing something against their interests? How about saying others should show support for women by refusing to declare their sex so in email communications at least everyone is treated the same?

[brookstar]

I bloody love this 😂

[IcakethereforeIam]

The CoE could get in on this, could be a new revenue stream! Or Stonewall. 'I now pronouns you "he and him"'.

[GibbonsGoatsGibbons]

😂
Ask everyone if they would like to declare their star signs next time