“Trans womens rights are womens rights”

[Theeyeballsinthesky]

Says Angela raynor twitter.com/lbc/status/1549000583742455809?s=21&t=qgvRnVgFhJgygk_b4Qxg2w

so that’s “mens rights are Women’s then”’

She’s either stupid or duplicitous but either way Labour can’t be trusted with Women’s rights

Angela has let women down. She let that trans caller down called Rebecca. By nodding along and agreeing that her colleagues are transphobes, such as Reeves and Rosie Duffield. By agreeing that Rebecca should be 'petrified' to go on Twitter.
I can't see how labour will ever turn this around so I can vote for them. They don't respect women, they have no understanding of safeguarding and now they think that male's rights are women's rights! Why don't we just scrap the Equality Act protected characteristics and have people's rights? Those who shout the loudest can have what they want and others will just get the scraps.
No thank you Angela Rayner and no thank you Labour.
I have two daughters who need a decent future and on behalf of them I say no thank you.

#LabourLosingWomen now trending on Twitter.

Trans women need them as public confirmation of their status as women.

That’s not a right, that’s a demand for people to collude in a fiction.

That trans woman that called in was typical of the 'we are literally scared to death to go on twitter' and 'everyone attacks us'. This person also made reference to Rosie Duffield being transphobic.
Literal weaponising of white tears there

Whatever Angela's IQ may be, as discussed here this afternoon, we know that high intelligence scores sadly appear to be no barrier to believing in the insanity that is gender identity ideology
I don't agree that intelligent people believe in gender ideology. I think it's either a status display - look at this absolute claptrap I can come out with and still rank socially higher than you - pure insecurity and terror of disagreeing with what they wrongly think is the herd opinion, or (invariably white middle-class for this one) desperation to be seen as young and relevant therefore saying TWAW because they think it makes them look cool and trendy. Not forgetting good old-fashioned hatred of women and the lovely excuse to abuse us of course.

Well, @Alltheprettyseahorses, maybe you're right about intelligent people not actually believing this bullshit & having other reasons for pretending to believe it, but maybe AR is the same? Anyway, the effect is the same - people you'd hope would see straight through the pile of nonsense that is trans ideology simply don't appear to but often choose to blindly promulgate it.

I'm explaining why some people think trans women "need" womens rights when the entire existance of those rights is to mitigate the social consequences of a body they will never have.

You think they are wrong. I think they are wrong. That's not the point. The point is to make their thinking explicit so the conflict between the two "needs" cannot be ignored.

The TRA project to open up all female-only resources to males who feel akin to (their mental concept of) females depends on no one looking too hard at the massive disconnect that underlies their demands, and it's not that "men can't be women" because language can be changed, it's that what they demand for trans women under the new meaning of woman relies on the contuing existence of resources that are only justified by the old definition.

That trans woman that called in was typical of the 'we are literally scared to death to go on twitter' and 'everyone attacks us'.

Also a Lib Dem activist that’s very active on Twitter.

what they demand for trans women under the new meaning of woman relies on the contuing existence of resources that are only justified by the old definition.

You've nailed it, Rhinos

Women only spaces are only justifiable because excluding males from those spaces mitigates against the disadvantages women face due to their biological bodies.

TRAs want to keeping the the separate spaces but let biological men in. With men no longer excluded, the separate spacea no longer mitigate female disadvantage. Instead, their only purpose is to validate transwomen.

For some it's the validation the comes with being in female spaces. But for most it's the removal of womens spaces and rights. Gender neutral language and spaces is coming off the back of this.

Its not coincidentally that one of the 'womens' issues men routinely get behind leads to the word women being removed from legalisation and the removal of spaces they aren't entitled to be in.

You might be right, Zutt. People are part of the TRA movement for many different reasons.

Some Transwomen will be going into women's spaces for validation.

But it's hard to avoid the conclusion that for some people, the whole purpose of the movement is to remove women's rights (I do still believe that for others, it's just a consequence they don't care about)

We still underestimate how much some men hate us

Rayner who called Tories 'scum'? That Rayner.

Yeah, she's not a politician I have any respect for. Nobody who uses dehumanising terms should be in politics.

Angela Rayner needs to be schooled on her history. If she understood the struggle Jennie Lee had to go to in order to have a women's toilet in the Dept of Education in the 1960s, she wouldn't be so tolerant of this modern phenomenon of denying women safety and privacy today.

Little power play after what Rachel Reeves said??

I wish Angela could see this from other women's perspectives. She struggles there I think?

At this moment in time I honestly fear Labour are making themselves unelectable for the next decade just when we really needed them.

I don't think they'll lose an election over this, that's the problem. When the Women's Equality Party had a conference to look at women's rights and trans rights and where they might conflict, they found most of their membership was neutral/confused rather than decided in either camp and I don't think much has changed since then. I think a lot of people on the liberal side feel torn by this issue.

Hopefully I won't get banned for saying this though. There's only around 100,000 trans people in the UK (I'm not going to count non-binary people who choose to be the other sex with no drugs or surgery because it would be patently ridiculous to let them use the other sex's changing rooms or compete in the other sex's sporting events) and there are nearly 34m women. I think the safety of 34m people trumps the feelings of 100,000 people who could just be given a third option of gender neutral facilities and accept that everyone is more than happy to champion their rights on every other matter from non-discrimination at work to fair treatment under the law.

Does that mean that Transmens rights are mens rights and transmen are no longer covered under things like maternity rights?

Apparently so. It’s funny how no one ever shouts ‘transmen rights are mens rights’. It’s like it’s a misogynistic movement trying to erase women’s rights are something.

I was born female. Can I be a TW Angela?

No? Why not?

<Singing to self> I think you'd better think it out again..... hoy!

You should be able to. Just identify as a FTMTF. That would work. Then you can have all the privileges. It is strange though, if no one can define woman, how do we know TWAW?

Brilliant!

Don't know why I didn't think of this before, but having read your post, from now on, every time someone says TWAW I will ask them "Do you think they should get maternity rights then?"

Then sit back and listen to them get their knickers in a twist.

Labour need to sort themselves out. Mainstream public opinion is against trans ideology they will never get in if they carry on. Oh great there will be another 10 years of Tory rule 🙄. They need to win the election so they need to make compromises on their beliefs.

If a transman gives birth surely they are protected? In law you have to take 2 weeks off or 4 weeks if you work in a factory.

But that is a women’s right. Maternity rights are for women therefore transmen would not be able to have them would they? You can’t be a man and have womens rights too

Equally we cannot declare that maternity rights are now men's rights and people's rights and strip all females of badly needed protection for a small number of females who prefer not to call themselves women. Because that would be disproportionate in the extreme and massively detrimental to the people pregnant and giving birth. All of whom will be female, whether they are distressed by this fact or not.

Maternity rights are female rights. Gender identity of said female is irrelevant to their claim on said rights.

Don't know why I didn't think of this before, but having read your post, from now on, every time someone says TWAW I will ask them "Do you think they should get maternity rights then?"

Was there some case RM White led which was for maternity rights for the TW partner of a woman who'd given birth? I didn't read the details but seem to remember something like that?