The ABM, ideologically captured.

[Filomene]

These experiences of this volunteer are not unique to her. Others have been pushed or left quietly and these experiences will resonate across the world because authoritarianism behaves the same in every society and in every business model.

What a mess.

How long before this organisation changes its name to Association of Chestfeeding People? I cannot fathom how so many groups, dedicated solely to female experiences like breastfeeding, have been captured by genderwoo and bullies.

The righteous anger these pernicious new ideologies justify is appealing to certain personality types. They are drunk on power. They were always bullies in waiting but now they have been given the tools to do it whilst still believing they are good people and without losing social standing in the eyes of the others, or so they think anyway. Time may tell on that one.

Those NHS hospitals that have signed b up to the NHS Rainbow Badge scheme are required to answer this questions as part of the assessment.

"Does the service have sensitive guidance in place to support a non-carrying parent to breastfeed/chestfeed?"

I assume this means that the NHS now has to support men who want to "breastfeed" their baby.

When I was a midwife such a man would have been reported to social services. Now it looks like becoming NHS policy.

Supporting a “non-carrying parent” to breastfeed is appalling! What happened to respect for the mother-baby dyad? Where are the concerns about safeguarding, I’d be wondering about coercive control if a “non-carrying parent” wanted to be involved in breastfeeding which means in all honesty coming between the mother-baby relationship and totally scuppering breastfeeding.

All the evidence we have suggests that mother and baby need to be kept close together from birth, immediate skin to skin and as much thereafter as the mother is happy with. There is a balance to be established between the baby’s needs and the mother’s supply, the mother grows in confidence as she builds a close relationship with her baby learning to read and respond to the baby’s cues. Fathers are discouraged from giving a bottle “so they can be involved” or “bond with the baby” not only because it causes nipple confusion but also because it reduces time at the mother’s breast and displaces her milk altering her supply accordingly not only that but there will be a knock on physical effect on the mother as it will disrupt her hormonal balance. The mother and baby should be regarded as one, any third party butting in to that relationship does not have their best interests at heart and is serving only his or her own interests.

Exactly @PomegranateOfPersephone
And as this is for hospital policies it seems it is aimed at newborns or possibly for babies in NICU as the time a mother and baby is quite short these days. I was utterly appalled when I read this.

I suppose it could include a woman in a lesbian relationship but breastfeeding in the early days must be done by the mother alone for all the reasons you mention.

Indeed if a lesbian co-mother wants to breastfeed then the mother who gave birth should be informed that getting breastfeeding well established first would be more likely to lead to successful breastfeeding, however I am not sure I like that mothers may feel pressured into such an arrangement by a female partner any more than by a male one, or by cultural expectation that when a mother is in a lesbian relationship both will breastfeed.

I would rather protect the mother-baby dyad, I think that the idea that breastfeeding is no longer the domain of the mother who has carried and given birth to her baby is a dangerous path to go down. I really want the pregnant/birthing woman centred in her own biological process of becoming a mother. It is a fragile and vulnerable time for many women and I feel that the relationship between mother and baby should be acknowledged and protected whatever the sex of her partner.

Absolutely agree @PomegranateOfPersephone

I loved breastfeeding and whilst my husband is an extremely adoring father and husband he longed to feed DD1. As the time went on, and planning to return to work part time, I started expressing to try to give it to her by a bottle which she utterly rejected. I remember him standing over me watching me express and this sort of expectation that I could just squeeze out a bottle full like juicing an orange. I found it really annoying and had to bite my tongue not to say something inflammatory - it was a very emotive as his mother had died of a brain haemorrhage a few days before DD was born and as well as being sad myself I had to support him and things like this seemed something I shouldn't cause added tension. And truth was I didn't want him bottle feeding her anyway. I was the one who was feeding her.

That is within a loving caring relationship. The opportunity for coercive control to come between mother and baby is huge.

The mother/baby dyad needs protecting at all costs and these sorts of policies directly threaten that.

I also think that those who think the "non-carrying partner" (male or female) is reduced to nothing more than nappy changer don't understand the full range of interaction with a young baby. For instance my DH would take DD upstairs and I'd hear gales of laughter from her as he tickled her and played while he did it. They had a lovely time. And as ridiculous as it sounds from the perspective of quite a few years on and not being in that hormonal new mother state, I used to feel quite jealous as I approached nappy changing as a task and somehow we never had the fun and laughter that he had.

So my point is it is ridiculous to suggest that the only way a "non-carrying" partner (NCP) can bond with the baby or help the new mother is by breastfeeding themselves. There are lots of ways for the NCP to bond and help generally. Ways that would improve the adult relationships rather than filling them with tension and causing actual physical harm to the mother by interfering with her lactation. If HCPs think they need to add their twopennyworth to promoting the parents transition to parents and helping their relationship they need to think of better ways to do it than coming between the mother and baby and suggesting everyone has a go at breastfeeding.

I meant to say it was "a very emotional time" not emotive in my first post.

I don't think a newborn baby should be used as a prop to further perpetuate a fantasy. This kind of "feeding" is only for the parent's benefit.

But I don't think it's fair to say that an untouchable mother-baby breastfeeding bubble is the only healthy way to care for a newborn. For lots of nothers it works very well having a baby who is happy taking a bottle from the other parent. Not for "convenience" but for mental health, and 4th trimester survival.

If it works it works @BlueMumDays and I would agree with you but it's an individual choice and that is quite different to the NHS promoting breastfeeding/chest feeding by a "non-carrying parent".

The idea that the husband or lesbian co-mother has to feed a baby to bond or be included is steeped in our formula feeding culture. Look at the formula ads with dad 'helping out'. Indeed pretending that both parents can feed the baby is a quick trip to ending breastfeeding for the baby.

Me neither. Of all the institutions I just cannot understand it. It seems as though women's services are the most fanatical and captured.

Oh 100%, I don't agree that trying to make "non-carrying chestfeeding" a widely accepted thing is in anyway beneficial to a baby. But I don't think that sharing feeding between parents is automatically detrimental. And I can see that using a non-productive nipple "as a dummy" could probably provide some comfort to a baby.

Actually ingesting hormone laden milk should be very carefully researched, and with a proper newborn I would worry that they could tire themselves out suckling without getting any milk.

I agree with @ShamedBySiri . I've seen a lesbian couple talk about this: their baby was exclusively breast fed so since the carrying mother did all the feeds, the co-mother did the vast majority of nappy changes. She did it very intentionally and always described to baby what she was doing, gave lots of eye contact, used the "baby signing" sign for "nappy" so that baby began to recognise the process they were about to start. It was a real opportunity for bonding.

Of course parents can bond with their child by other means than feeding.

Not always. All my babies had one bottle in the late afternoon (when I just couldn't bear having a grumpy baby gnawing on my empty boobs!) from newborn til about 6 weeks, and I breastfed each of them til 12 months +

That's absolutely fine and great that it worked for you @BlueMumDays but @Filomene is right that the promotion of DA's feeding is basically about promoting bottle feeding. Promoting another parent to feed is undermining the breastfeeding parent. It's one thing for couples to find a solution that works for them in the way it did for you but hospitals and midwives have most influence within a short postnatal period and if they are to promote breastfeeding then they need to concentrate on that and supporting the breastfeeding mother not undermining her at a time when she is still new to mother hood and her lactation is not yet established.

New mothers are extremely vulnerable and suggestible - I had no doubt about wanting to breastfeed and fortunately it came easily to both me and my babies, but if it had been suggested that I had to include my husband and help him I don't know what I'd have thought.

And also none of this centres the baby. I know how cross DD got when attempts were made to get her to take a bottle, imagine a screaming baby refusing to fix on a hairy nipple that might deliver a few scant drops of some sort of exudate. Meanwhile mothers become acutely distressed when their baby is crying like that, it physically hurts as your breasts fill, it's all extremely undermining of mothers, babies and healthy family relationships.

*dads breastfeeding not DA's

One day I'll learn to proof read!

In fact I think I meant to say dads feeding!

I agree with you all and yes the main point is about what the NHS is promoting. Promoting shared feeding is not evidence based best practice when it comes to supporting mothers who want to breastfeed. Combination feeding from birth clearly works for some but seems that it will cause problems for the majority and so the advice is wait until breastfeeding is well established especially if you are really keen to breastfeed. I think it is really important that the mother and baby are centred and the dyadic relationship protected and that fathers and co-mothers see themselves as supporting that relationship while finding other non feeding related ways of bonding eg, nappy changing, baby massage, baby wearing, bathing, singing, rocking etc etc

That’s not true at all. The mother can express milk for the father to use for bottle feeding overnight.

You seem to think that fathers should not be involved.

I'm unsure how you arrived at "You seem to think that fathers should not be involved." Please explain.

For context, the Association of Breastfeeding Mothers and the Breastfeeding Network (BfN) provide the woman power for the National Breastfeeding Helpline, receiving funding from the NHS for it. They are therefore intimately involved with the capture of the NHS by transactivism.