Pink News does know the difference between male and female after all...

[WhiteHydrangeas]

...but only when it comes to two gay men buying babies and the 'wrong' sex being delivered.

Just saw this on Twitter and I don't even know where to start with this story. 🤐

twitter.com/Fisher_Download/status/1546165034140794881

It's just like China where there's an exception to the one child policy if your first child is a girl.

Grim.

I saw this story last night and was just so angered by every aspect of it. Rich men buying women for breeding and the babies being an unwanted, inferior disappointment if they are girls. And we're meant to think that this is progressive? That poor girl is going to grow up knowing her parents wanted a refund,and probably completely constricted by gendered expectations.

Or maybe they actually extract cells now to test but surely that would risk issues with that embryo?

Extracting one cell from an embryo for testing doesn’t appear to harm it.

Some clinics also use sperm-sorting to try and separate the X sperm from the Y sperm, but this isn’t 100% accurate.

We still don’t know the long-term effects of different IVF procedures, though.

Isn’t this the whole point of the argument!!! The sex chromosomes are literally in our DNA. Every cell of our body dictates what sex we are.

Both beautiful and heartbreaking. That poor girl and her poor mother.

I feel exactly the same. “Oh, did you just assume the baby’s gender?” Turns out it’s not “assigned at birth” after all.
The fact that they were “determined” to be parents to two sons and are now disappointed shows eye-watering levels of entitlement.

Why can't they just be grateful to have a healthy child? From a quick Google they are also wealthy so can afford to raise her. Greedy and entitled.

Out and out misogyny. Couldn't be clearer. They despise female humans. Poor wee girl

What’s beautiful about it?

Beautiful 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

In what possible way is this beautiful?

It's not the first time PN has reported like this

Archive link t.co/342trHsR4y

Which argument? I’m scientifically aware enough to already know what you’re saying, thank you. I thought an embryo was basically a fertilised egg though, in the pre-DNA stages, so didn’t realise it was possible to tell at that point, I’m not a biologist.

Cells can be removed from embryos at a couple of stages of pre-implantation development. It’s more commonly done on Day5 or 6 post fertilisation now, when a few cells can be extracted from what will eventually become the placenta and are easily tested, including accurate identification of the sex chromosomes. This can be done by a number of different methods. Day 3 embryos can have a single cell removed but this is usually not the preferred approach these days if the embryos can make it to Day 5.

Obviously I don’t know what has taken place in this clinic in this case but these kind of tests are well established in the US as part of IVF.

As someone who desperately wanted but couldn’t have children, the breathtaking entitlement and truly shocking disregard for the value of this baby girl and the women who donated the egg and carried her is staggering to me.

Hi LeniGrey, apologies, I cross posted with you.

There are no pre-DNA stages, an egg contains DNA and a sperm contains DNA. The moment of fertilisation literally brings that DNA together to make an embryo when the sperm penetrates the egg. The DNA is in the form of sex and non- sex chromosomes.

An egg contains a single X sex chromosome (made from DNA).

A sperm contains either an X or a Y sex chromosome (made from DNA)

So a female embryo is made by a X carrying sperm (the embryo is XX) and a male embryo is made by a Y carrying sperm (the embryo is XY).

Sex selection is legal in many places though often only for medical reasons. IVF brings up a lot of ethical issues, I'm not sure that this is any greater than the others.

Aren't you? It's notable that two of the countries which do ban it are India and China - for obvious reasons given their 'missing girls' problems.

Valuing one sex more than the other isn't a bland 'preference'.

This is just so upsetting. Ultimately there are so many things you can't predict or control when you have children, which is why your number one job is to love your children unconditionally. No matter what.

What a pair of absolute fucking bastards they are.

There are many ethical issues with IVF, I don't consider sex selection at embryo stage the biggest issue, there are a load of ethical issues before you even get to that stage.

Hi just asking but outside of surrogacy & sex selecting embryos, what are the ethical issues of IVF?

Entitled Fuckers.

They've given zero thought to how this will impact their child growing up.

Imagine finding out you were a "sales ordering error" - one your parents felt disappointed about enough to sue over....

On the basis of emotional harm to the child they shouldn't be parents at all.

As for gmail accounts - says it all doesn't it. This is our pre-planned image of our family. This is our brand.

Well one question is what to do with unused embryos.

They have the potential of life. Is it right to destroy them?

Another would be where multiple embryos are implanted in the hopes of increasing the chance of pregnancy, resulting in selective termination if the result is a multiple pregnancy (afaik not all clinics do this).

The ethics of using an embryo if a parent has died. Even if they gave their permission prior to death is it fair for a child to know they were implanted after their parent had died? Or what about the case where a mother wanted to carry the child of her dead son?

Equally some people might argue is it appropriate to tinker with nature at all?

To be clear I'm not anti IVF and I'm not suggesting I'm pro/anti any of the arguments above but I think it's fair to say it's a process that is not without ethical concerns and has the potential to cross ethical lines by clinics who provide the service if they are not legally constrained by good ethical standards.

Honestly the fertility clinic's defence should be that there is no way of telling what sex the baby is until they are old enough to decide for themselves.

The ethics of using an embryo if a parent has died. Even if they gave their permission prior to death is it fair for a child to know they were implanted after their parent had died? Or what about the case where a mother wanted to carry the child of her dead son?

Amd of course the donor babies. Embryos selected because they are a match to am older sibling in order to provide bome marrow or spare parts.