Sajid Javid just resigned

[achillestoes]

That’s all.

Except it appears the 1922 committee, and if that happens the system will collapse. We will no longer be a democracy - yes it is that serious.

Or doesn’t matter who you vote for - this is really deeply disturbing.

@Blossomtoes

Regardless, the electorate chooses the government of the day. The MPs of the biggest party choose their own leader. That is democratic and correct. The Tories can remove Johnson but until they do (by whatever rules they can arrive at by consensus) he is PM.

*It doesn’t

@Provenceinthesummer

It isn’t. They are members of the Tory parliamentary party. He won’t be removed unless he loses a VONC, voted for by elected MPs.

Indeed the confidence vote has just happened! Boris won. It looks like ‘some’ people think that it is the wrong answer - so they are trying to fix and corrupt the outcome.

You might think this is a good thing if you hate Boris, but the markets feel differently. It is tanking and with good reason. It is worth considering what it will be like living in a technocratic state……

Op the committee plan to “change the rules” to force another confidence vote.
It is a corrupted move that will start a chain of events that will render the country undemocratic.

@Provenceinthesummer

He still has to lose the VONC to be removed. If he doesn’t command the confidence of a majority of his MPs he should go.

You have a confidence vote - the outcome is accepted by all for another year.
Unless it’s the wrong answer and then they rig the rule change, meddle with the vote and force a continuation of new confidence votes until they get the ‘right’ answer - hardly democratic!!

You are missing the point. He won the vote, and shouldn’t need to face another for 12 months

Well, that's what we are working with.

@Provenceinthesummer

I’m not missing it. If they change the rules, they do. He still has a chance to prove his continued legitimacy (although I accept that constant changes to the rules presents a problem).

It is a corrupted move that will start a chain of events that will render the country undemocratic

That chain of events began three years ago with the illegal prorogue of parliament. You seem very unconcerned about that for someone who values democracy so highly

Surely nobody here would want Johnson in place as PM without the confidence of the majority of his MPs? On what basis would he be PM?

OTOH, if it turns out he does have it, the dissenters need to stop whining and let him get on.

Well, it's a tactic. One that Scotland is getting used to!

Don’t you see that if every elected leader is subjected to relentless confidence votes - regardless of political colour - we will never ever get anything done, the country becomes a failed undemocratic state - we vote someone into office in good faith, and it’s overthrown by some men in grey suits further down the line.

And of course that’s going to apply to every leader - the rules will be changed. It is such a corrosive concept I am not even sure they will vote for it - the committee.

A PM will no longer have any power - it can be taken at any moment by an unelected man/men in the back office. The rules can be bent and changed at will. Of course we should be worried about that!!

If the future of democracy in the UK is dependent on the internal rules of the tory party then democracy is already fucked in the UK.

Don't you get that we have become a failed state because we have a leader who no-one trusts because he is demonstrably dishonest and corrupt?

@Provenceinthesummer

I understand the concern, but the PM should be able to command the confidence of the majority of his party. He’s just an MP otherwise.

You can pressure people in areas that have nothing to do with their feelings, where they have to make a pragmatic decision to save their own skin.

The question is whether anyone wants to bring that kind of element into it.

If his position will become untenable in other ways I imagine they won't. But I don't think the party will allow him to stay if they think he will lose them an election.

I think there is a good chance he'll be done by the end of the month, if not this week.

I disagree - we are still a democratic and fair state if the elected leaders are still accountable to the ELECTORATE and not the little men in the grey suits in the committee.
People will have their chance to voice their feelings at the ballot box. That is how democracies function.

i imagine if pushed he will call a GE

@Provenceinthesummer

It isn’t how this democracy functions. He is accountable to his MPs. Part of me hopes he wins (getting rid of him risks Penny Mordaunt) but he has to win to be legitimate. MPs aren’t ‘men in grey suits’, they’re our representatives.

After this I imagine the main parties are going to split - Labour is falling apart - it feels like something huge is truly shifting

For gods sake how many times!!

The Confidence Vote only happened last week! He won the full confidence of his MPs

It is not the case that we keep going until we get a ‘different answer.’ He won just days ago - the result should be upheld and respected. It might not suit all, but that’s how democracy works.

The latest resignations including Kemi Badenoch were co-ordinated. This seems like a sign of gathering pace, doesn't it?