There's no LGB without the T

[CheshireSplat]

This is getting a lot of love on my LinkedIn tonight.

I've never posted in S&G before, let alone started a thread and of course I haven't responded.

1. Why is there no LGB without the T?

1. Do all my straight, white, cis (sorry but it is relevant here) connections understand the intersection of being a lesbian and a "transphobe".

1. I support trans rights.

1. I understand that sometimes different rights clash.

Who comes up with these meaningless memes? Saying There's No LGB without the T is like saying There's No Hamburger without Mustard,No Beans without Bangers,No FIsh without Chips.

Lesbian, gay, bisexual are same sex attracted. There was sympathy and support for transwomen and transmen until they started getting pressured to have sex with people against their personal preference, based on how trans people say they identify regarding their gender, rather than their actual biological sex.

They are all different groups. Forced teaming is not a good look.

1. Why is there no LGB without the T?

Because the T insist that. Stonewall in the U.K. have said it too. And now it has to be. They didn't poll all LGB people in the U.K. and ask them in they objected to the T being added on, we were just told suddenly that we don't exist without the T. Job done.

1. Do all my straight, white, cis (sorry but it is relevant here) connections understand the intersection of being a lesbian and a "transphobe".

No. Sone will and won't repost, but most won't at all. They'll just think they're being kind and poor poster who experienced discrimination.

1. I support trans rights.

Ok. I'm not aware of any posters on the S&G boards who are against trans people having the same rights as everybody else. Or do you mean they should have extra rights?

1. I understand that sometimes different rights clash.

Not sure why 3&4 are needed here unless you're worried what people will think of you for posting? Don't know what they have to do with your first questions.

LinkedIn doesn’t seem to be about professional networking anymore. It’s awash competitive virtue signalling for likes. These people seem to think they’re doing humanitarian work the way they harp on. Any disagreement on a post like this leads to a Twitter-esque pile on.

@CheshireSplat could you explain the intersection of being a lesbian and a transphobe? Are you saying it is transphobic if a lesbian won’t date/sleep with a male bodied person?

‘Do all my straight, white, cis (sorry but it is relevant here) connections understand the intersection of being a lesbian and a "transphobe"’

It’s the same as the intersection between being a lesbian and being a ‘man-hater’. Lesbians aren’t supposed to set their own sexual boundaries.

You’ve blocked out the LI profile details, but reading around the content (partner and I are two trans women delivering training) and linking it to what’s been in the news recently…

I’m going to take a stab at this being from one of the smaller “consultancies” being paid stupid amounts of money to force-feed an irrational ideology onto civil servants and employees unfortunate enough to have “ally” employers.

The Telegraph, Mail and whichever other newspapers have been investigating them are perfectly within their rights to lift up the drain covers and question where our taxes are going, particularly when it’s paying for the sort of BS “training” we’ve seen reported.

As other PP have said, “no LGB without the T” is a nonsense catchphrase. LGB is about sexuality. The T is… not.

And the T wouldn’t have got a fraction of the traction it has without glomming onto the LGB. It’s why they’re so desperate to lump them together. Without LGB , the T is nothing.

Lesbians have been vilified, thrown out of Pride, banished from Lesbian groups, threatened, targeted online, threats of rape, violence etc for simply saying that they are same sex attracted and not gender attracted.

There has been tutorials given online on popular social media teaching transwomen how "to get past the cotton ceiling" - aka how to get into lesbian's knickers. Young lesbians have been intimidated and pressured into having sex with male-bodies individuals - girl dick/lady penis - for fear of being ostracised and targeted for bigotry and transphobia.

Rape culture.

Gay men have suffered the same pressure, but not to the same degree at all.

@Norma27 shouldn't have quoted you there sorry. I am see what you're writing now that I've actually woken up and re-read the thread 🙈. I was posting to the OP. Apologies.

No worries @WelshMoth
The rape culture is disgusting.

Urgh, I never liked linkedin when is was all about jobs but i absolutely despise it now it's all about people's various personal struggles/political views. What's even for anymore?

Sorry if my post wasn't clear. Intersection wasn't the right word. What I meant was that my LinkedIn connections sharing and applauding this will have no idea about the cotton ceiling etc. I could send them the tweet from Allison Bailey's tribunal.

Thanks for all the replies. I think it is the non-secitur nature that made it jump out. As PPs have said LGB are about sexuality. Why is there no T without LGB. It's like saying there is no hamburger without doughnuts.

Anyway, just wanted to rant and I couldn't do that on my LinkedIn.

Why is there no T without LGB. It's like saying there is no hamburger without doughnuts.

Yes, it's just an invalid assertion. A linking of two quite different things,

I understood what you meant about that 'intersection'. That recent bbc piece about the cotton ceiling might be an appropriate introduction.

I hear you OP.

The whole ideology is trying to put down roots in all areas - I'm not really surprised that it's shifting to be honest, especially when it's becoming widely known that larger bodies such as as the Dept for Education are severing ties with the likes of Stonewall.

It's just really baffling to me (and probably to most of us that 'see' this) why people who are virtue signalling this ideology cannot actually see how homophobic they are being.

In their quest to #bekind, they are in effect pushing the whole gay rights movement back into the dark ages. I really don't get why people don't see this.

It's very disingenuous of the person who wrote the post to say they're just 2 trans women who do 'a bit of training'. They run Global Butterflies.

Homosexual people cannot exist without TQ+ people.

Er.... sorry, there they are, still existing. Always will.

And yes, they're entitled to rights, voices and representation of their own. They still exist without TQ+ control.

And since TQ+ politics is against homosexuality and people being allowed to be openly homosexual (how did that delightful person with the eyebrows put it - 'you won't get a pass when we're through') many LGB people are now very emphatic about wanting representation and groups that are nowhere near those who would like to convert them or remove them.

Because they're not masochists. (That's a different group. They meet in another room down the hall.)

I think from context that he is recognising that lesbians are being called transphobic for daring to say no to sex with TW (as homosexual women continue to exist) and maybe doesn't think this is an entirely good thing but...

is not quite all the way ready to say "giving heterosexual men the right to declare that from now on they will pursue sexual relationships with homosexual women is preposterously homophobic and of course I can't agree with it".

Is that about right OP?

There was LGB for decades(centuries?!) before the T.

T doesn't even belong with LGB. LGB is about sexual preferences, T is completely irrelevant.
As is adding the black and brown stripes to the LGB flag (what does ethnicity have to do with sexuality?)

It's ridiculous how being gay/lesbian /bi has been completely hijacked into being some sort of haven for anyone who 'feels' they're a bit different.

The BBC has already accepted that the training by global butterflies breached it's impartiality obligations. The descriptions of the training by whistleblowers sounds highly inappropriate.

Its ridiculous to suggest that newspapers reporting this story are being meanies.

Global butterflies could have avoided the bad press by providing training which was appropriate to a national broadcaster with statutory duties to be apolitical and a strict code of ethics. Presumably they didn't even read the code before designing the training.

There's No LGB without the T

Utter gibberish.

It's vaguely implying that LGB sexual orientations are somehow dependant on Transgenderism? Of course Lesbians or Gay men or Bisexuals can exist without the T - what vapid cockwaffle.

The two people in question are from Global Butterflies, the group that told BBC journalists to lobby politicians to change laws in favour of trans lobby groups.

Their statement is deliberately fluffy to ignore the facts.

Yes, indeed. The black and brown stripes being added in is utterly offensive - as if a rainbow somehow excludes anyone who isn't white, what illogical piffle.

Logical thinking is not a feature of this movement. It's a sort of lego-based, uncritical, pseudo-religious reasoning. Make a flag of bright colours, keep adding bits onto it, unrelated, vague thoughts represented by reductive colour-associations - it's like Playschool Does Politics.

rant away - lawd knows it's enough a sane person rant

Lesbian and gay pride used to be about homosexuality

www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-61813459