Baroness Nicholson on Regent Street flags

[ChristinaXYZ]

Her letter here:

twitter.com/Baroness_Nichol/status/1542733465157877760/photo/1

I'm sure you do like the idea of personal realities, and the idea of demanding that everyone else joins in on them! Bit like a child who insists that everyone has to play Let's Pretend. Except it isn't cute in anyone above 11 years old.

Ooh he antidascist could be the third corner of the love triangle! I can see it now, Who will heartache choose, the dashing but optimistic aseries or the younger but more vocal antifa. This novel writes itself. I’m the next Barbara Cartland.

Sorry @Hearach15 got carried away and changed your name. But heartache does sound better so I’m going with that.

I took along a selection of mini flags for people to wave, representing a range of identities, and the trans flag was definitely the most popular. Probably because many of us know how it feels to face the kind of hostility that trans people are facing today, and we want to show our solidarity with them.

This is very common with the LGB people I know as well. They see themselves reflected in the current debates about what limits, if any, a trans identity should have.

While that is totally understandable, viewing the current questions about trans identity through the lens of their own experience of sexuality means they don't engage with the substance of the concerns, and leads them to give unconditional support to things they would be less comfortable about if they looked at them properly.

I note @Conflictedunicorn that when you are given repeated evidence of Nicholson's homophobia, anti abortion and poor use of evidence you enter into a bizarre fantasy world about the sexual preferences of your critics.

You manage to pretty much exemplify the behaviour of an entire movement right ther

You're right that most LGB people support trans people. This is also because we are more likely to know them and thus are actually far more educated on the issues than most straight/cisgender people.

You’ve asked them all right? You do know that we had transsexuals back in the dark ages?

I don't suppose anyone is denying that you probably know a lot of heterosexual men.

That's the trouble when you work soo hard to redefine homosexuality in general and lesbianism in particular.

Honestly, hardly know any. My housemate said the other day "Sometimes I forget straight people exist" and it really rang true for me.

You're right that most LGB people support trans people. This is also because we are more likely to know them and thus are actually far more educated on the issues than most straight/cisgender people.

I can't speak for cisgender people because I am not one. However, if you think the reasons to limit what access a trans identity gives a person to the spaces and resources of the opposite sex are simply because people don't know enough about trans people or don't have lovely trans friends you are missing the point.

I believe the experience of having a female body in a sexist society is meaningful enough to justify rights, existence and a voice separate to male people of any gender identity.

I do not want a person who has not lived as female from birth taking public or professional roles where they speak for female people. Firstly because I don't, based on the things said by the most visible examples of people who have put themselves in exactly those roles, think those people truly understand what living from birth as female is like, and secondly because female people are already underrated and like any underrepresented group they need and deserve to see people like them take active and visible roles.

I do not want a person who has benefitted from male privilege for 40 years taking prizes and opportunities intended to build up female people because that person has identified as a woman for 5 years.

And none of that is anything to do with fear, dislike or disbelief in trans people. It's do to with supporting female people in our centuries old fight against sexism. And as a female person I sure as hell know what I'm talking about.

"I do not want a person who has benefitted from male privilege for 40 years taking prizes and opportunities intended to build up female people because that person has identified as a woman for 5 years."

Of course, the moment a person comes out as trans they lose a huge amount of privilege and put themselves at an enormous risk of social and economic exclusion. I will always support this small minority in their valiant fight for equality and inclusion.

You do really need to get out more @Hearach15 it might do you some good. Now I’ve assigned you as a non binary agender otherkin for the novel. It’s called. Wooing the world, love in the gender wars.

Of course, the moment a person comes out as trans they lose a huge amount of privilege and put themselves at an enormous risk of social and economic exclusion. I will always support this small minority in their valiant fight for equality and inclusion.

@Hearach15 what privilege would they lose? What rights do trans people not have that everyone else has?

antifascist hierarche1
Going back to what Baroness Nicholson’s letter was about.
It was about including 100 Progress Flags among Pride flags.

Progress flags are supposed to represent people with DSDs/VSDs often called Intersex.

Including people with these conditions by means of a Progress flag was ‘hostile’ to people with DSDs. , because people with DSD have asked that their conditions not be used as examples of trans gender states - which they are not.

From DSD families
Guide

This is not a guide about LGBT+ issues, as Differences of Sex Development/Intersex Variations are not a form of sexuality or gender identity; they are about physical differences in a person’s reproductive development and sometimes genital development.

Q. Are DSD and transgender the same thing?

No, they aren't. DSD refers to a physical situation that begins before birth in which the reproductive/genital system does not develop as expected for a typical boy or girl.

www.dsdfamilies.org › faq
FAQ - DSD Families

Stonewall
Stonewall …………………………..does not, after discussions with members of the intersex community, include intersex issues as part of its current remit at this stag

Of course, the moment a person comes out as trans they lose a huge amount of privilege and put themselves at an enormous risk of social and economic exclusion

For some trans people that is true. Others, typically the ones who had a nice slug of male privilege to start with, get lauded and supported and their voices amplified.

Eddie Izzard? Pips Bunce? Diana Thomas? The Wachowski sisters? Lia Thomas? Emily Bridges? Monroe Bergdorf? How exactly have these people, many already successful in their fields as men, lost out by transitioning?

And to be clear, I wish them every luck, happiness, success and as big a platform as they want to speak for trans people. But to draw on their experiences of "womanhood" to speak for female people, or when their successes are held up as examples of what women can achieve, that's just kicking people who actually deal with the challenges of being female in the teeth.

Of course, the moment a person comes out as trans they lose a huge amount of privilege and put themselves at an enormous risk of social and economic exclusion. I will always support this small minority in their valiant fight for equality and inclusion.

This is simply not true.

Please show how that works in sports?

How has that worked for Eddie Izzard?

We can list many names of mature males who have transitioned and have not lost their privilege. Remarkable to see stated that they do, so yes, that one really needs to be evidenced.

Haha! That's going to be a little tricky to maintain when, to you, a straight relationship can involve two men, two women, or a man and a woman.

As I said, it's best not to use words that you don't understand.

You keep plugging away centring heterosexual males, and leave the LGB to people who can at least define the terms.

Of course, the moment a person comes out as trans they lose a huge amount of privilege and put themselves at an enormous risk of social and economic exclusion. I will always support this small minority in their valiant fight for equality and inclusion.

This may well be true for some, and perhaps very much so for trans men, but there are those who transition and roll up to snatch prizes or advantages reserved for women and are cushioned by their new status, often called brave.

Getting into a women’s prison, winning a women’s literature prize, winning a women’s swimming race ( after not being so successful at men’s) being so first ‘female’ admiral in the US, being the head of a women’s rape crisis centre, being the winner of women in business ……. All brought added privileges to transitioned males.

Honestly, hardly know any. My housemate said the other day "Sometimes I forget straight people exist" and it really rang true for me.

you spelled headmate wrong

Finally, they are beginning to respect the wishes of people with DSDs.

At least five years ago, I remember the intersex society publishing a letter exchange that they had with the man who runs GIRES, I think it was.

He was desperate to have them align with trans ideology, on the basis that some people with DSDs have surgery. He wanted them to join forces with him in advocating for genital surgery. I believe a programme with Panorama was in the offing.

They refused over and over, but he kept pressuring them. In the end they published the letters.

The ideology uses homosexuality to defend itself, without being able to define it, in fact it redefines it as heterosexuality (see numerous posts on here). And now congenital disorders are appropriated to back up the 'born in the wrong body fantasy'.

Fortunately, people can now see it for what it is. When a peer of the realm sends out a public letter, you know the jig is up.

Why are you repeatedly bullying people who try and engage with you in good faith @Conflictedunicorn ? you are doing the cause you are attempting to advocate for no favours whatsoever

Who am I bullying? I’ve offered you the chance to be in my latest bonkbuster? Or are you defining bullying as ‘someone doesn’t agree with me’? Bless your heart child, this isn’t bullying. This is gently pointing out to you that you are slightly misguided in your opinions.

Yes, people with DSD have been asking for ages so this new gulag must be a complete kick in the teeth to them. This forced teaming is the only way the T can survive though. Without the LGB they would have nothing. And now the LGB are distancing themselves, their only hope is with people with DSD.

Flag dammit.