UK students more anti-free speech than ever: cultural socialism

[Pluvia]

I stumbled across this article:

unherd.com/thepost/britains-students-will-be-woke-forever/

I'm not sure I understand what is meant (or the implications) by the phrase 'cultural socialism.' If anyone can explain this, I'd be obliged.

antifascist

Please stop denigrating other posters by misrepresenting their posts. And potentially and dramatically misrepresenting their political views.

They asked for reputable links. Not unexplained embedded hyperlinks.

You're being asked not to hyperlink a word but to paste the links separately.

NB: There is prior experience of some posters who operate in bad faith of posting dubious links on FWR. As a courtesy, posters here tend not to embed links.

Thanks for the explanation. Given the interface offers the possibility of embedding links I'm not used to someone being quite so ungracious when someone asks for links and they are provided.

Only by you , Antifa. I have literally never read / heard it anywhere else.

What is cultural Marxism? Buggered if I know and I've been around the left since the 70s. I expect its the kind that does not improve the material conditions of poorer people.

Bit like this IDpol crap.

I have - one is to an anonymous Wiki article and the other to a blog piece which I can't be bothered reading.

Generally I've no interest in taking seriously the opinions of a poster using the name "antifascist".

I expect saying that in itself makes me a "fascist" but in a UK context "fascist" is a term thrown around far too freely (unless you are referring to your parents or grandparents etc, who might have suffered at the hands of fascists and/or actually have fought fascists)

Oh good call !

No wonder people are so -ill informed on here.

No wonder people are so -ill informed on here.

I wonder if you've somehow missed the work by academics such as Sarah Pedersen that explored just how well-informed some FWR MN posters are.

“It’s what the suffragettes would have wanted”: the construction of the suffragists and suffragettes on Mumsnet

www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14680777.2022.2032788

Prof Pedersen turned up on a MN thread that discussed another of her papers:

‘They've got an absolute army of women behind them’: The Formation of a Women's Cooperative Constellation in Contemporary Scotland

www.euppublishing.com/doi/abs/10.3366/scot.2022.0394?fbclid=IwAR3eShVOpPKmEnKSeKcU4PFfaJv18aESlYls2_qrmIDXo0XW7WtmUyImTFM&journalCode=scot

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4478528-theyve-got-an-absolute-army-behind-them-womens-cooperative-constellation-in-Scotland

I will repeat what I said on another thread.
"Antifascist" doesn't mean anti fascist. It means "anti any opinion I don't agree with because any one who doesn't agree with me is so obviously wrong and evil"

Like this bunch of thugs.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/black-lives-matter-protest-washington-restaurant-video-a9689731.html%3famp

That's a terrible article and not much worth bothering with, but as far as I can tell "cultural socialism" is just a new name for "cultural marxism" - which is what the right call any attempt to fight for the rights of minorities, or to point out that society is structured in ways that favour some groups over others, leveraging the public perception that "socialism = dictatorship = gulags = bad" to associate the same instinctive fear and loathing with "identity politics".

Not many people identify as marxists any more, but plenty still do as socialists, so the author probably feels that's a better way to get the point across.

It works pretty well. Just look at mumsnet.

Well I imagine the issue is that anytime anyone tries to give a name to that particular ideology, someone comes along and tries to dispute the ideology even exists by diputing the name. Some have (accuratly, it should be said) pointed out that some elements are pretty contrary to Marx, so perhaps the author felt that a somewhat more generic category would be better.

Identity politics is much the same thing but doesn't always get at the fact that there is a connection to other ideas and systems and that it's conclusions grow out of those ways of thinking.

I've heard a few other attempts at naming it, but none have really caught on.

leveraging the public perception that "socialism = dictatorship = gulags = bad" to associate the same instinctive fear and loathing with "identity politics".

I wonder if the public has a similar set of perceptions around fascism, concentration/rehabilitation camps, the enforcement of single public narratives (via mainstream or social media) and what tends to be described as hyper-individualism that wholly relies upon outsourcing externalities of various social evils onto the individual that has few protections?

I don't know. I've no idea if those surveys or assessments have been done. I know that a lot of times 'socialism' tends to be discussed in US terms rather than what it means in the UK. As cultural marxism seems to be a phrase that originated in the US I wonder if all of this is more of an expression of non-UK systems? That said, it's quite obvious at times that people don't understand the different rights and protections people have in the UK that aren't present in the US (e.g., maternity leave and pay).

This is one that political scientists have yet to fathom.

Just how is it so many left-wing women apparently became far-right in such a short time? And yet they don't spout or publish far-right material, there's no evidence that they are funded by the far right, and indeed the 'far-right' in the UK doesn't rightly exist to any substantial degree. It's going to be a struggle to find any 'T2rfs' in Combat 18.

A more likely explanation is that the effort to try to associate those opposed to the efforts to remove women-and-girls safeguarding protections and those opposed to 'transing-away-the-gay' plus those opposed to US-based BigPharma (which profits hugely from the New Homophobia movement) are labelled as 'far-right' in an effort to split the Left and try to limit the damage that could be inflicted on US corporations.

The LibDems took a huge donation from BigPharma and this could explain their commitment. Many who profess to be 'leftist' in the US and UK are hugely pro-corporate and dedicated to globalism; a great example being the rioting in Portland and Seattle in 2020 which left corporate headquarters offices relatively untouched, but saw thousands of small businesses with insufficient insurance (often Black-owned) torched and forced-out-of-business.

Big global corporations, particularly the polluting ones, get a pretty easy ride from the 'modern' Left these days. Even so-called climate protesters will happily glue themselves to a painting in a national art gallery rather than confront the key shareholders of strip-mining companies or those building coal-fired power stations.

We might living in times when the Left in the US and UK are so well aligned with the needs of BigPharma and global corporate concerns that it shouldn't come as a surprise when left-leaning women get accused of being 'fascists' or 'literal Nazi's' in an effort to try to get them to shut-up.

when the Left in the US and UK are so well aligned with the needs of BigPharma and global corporate concerns

Like a number of people on here, you appear to be engaging in a conversation which has little connection to reality.

You need to educate yourself.

Gender ideology is a boon to Big Pharma and threat to parental rights

Antifascist, you do talk an absolute steaming pile of rubbish.

Nonetheless happy to debate.

That key snag, explaining how prominent leftist women like Linda Bellos are now suddenly allied to a fascist cause, if not apparently being fascist themselves, is a tough prospect. Organisations like A Woman's Place in the UK and WoLF (the Women's Liberation Front) are recognised as distinctly leftist. The new campaign group - Lesbians United is out-and-out leftist.

But I'm willing to read any explanation, however absurd, in an effort to understand this effort to brand leftists as being fascists. Trying to present those who oppose lesbophobia and challenge efforts to reduce women's rights as fascist might get a little footnote in the political history of the Left, but I doubt it will be a complimentary note.

When I was about 15 years old if I found myself losing an argument - which was often - I would shout “fascist” or “racist” at those I was arguing with, then sit with a self-satisfied look on my face as if I’d done something clever.

I grew out of it.

It’s Jane Horrock’s entire character in Life Is Sweet.

And honestly, most people are pretty moderate. Even American people who vote Republican are pretty moderate, they aren't socialists or fascists, they just want good jobs and a reasonable life where they can educate their kids and there will e good jobs for them.

@secular111

That’s an interesting post. An unholy alliance of Swampy and Richie Rich?

Really? Did I imagine Ferring donated £100K to the Lib Dems? No, it happened:

Honestly, Antifascist, I thought you were the one who knows everything. Do we actually know more than you?

Whoops, cut and paste fail.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/puberty-blocker-drug-firm-donated-cash-to-lib-dems-cf3x77nh3

That should do it.