Surrogacy summed up in one photo

[Imnobody4]

This is absolutely chilling, twitter.com/liambrunetti/status/1540966900556959744?t=l6UnV24IZ7Kzv0-MrClalA&s=09

Your posts on this thread are excellent @Artichokeleaves

Thank you

Grim, very grim.

@Artichokeleaves Yes we agree that this isn't straightforward. I envy the certainty that some people have, they know it is right or they know it is wrong. Certainty is a nice place to be.

To be honest I don't think any type of conception is guaranteed to have nice outcomes.

This!

It’s awful. Not quite as bad as that TikTok video where the men are singing “Does he have a mother? No!” but that’s not a benchmark anyone needs to get close to 😡

What that picture illustrates perfectly, is an identity being denied. I’m not talking just about the woman, I’m talking about when the child is born. A child’s identity is that of who their mother is and that they have a mother.

Every child has a right to their identity UNCRC

The consequences of children born through surrogacy are at particular risk. https://www.unicef.org/media/115331/file

During a surrogacy arrangement, the rights of children are at risk in the following ways:
Establishing and preserving identity can be difficult or impossible for children born through surrogacy. The child’s rights under Articles 7 and 8 of the CRC – which protect the child’s rights to be registered at birth, to preserve their identity, and to re-establish their identity if they have been illegally deprived of some or all of its elements – can be negatively impacted by decisions made about the child in surrogacy situations. Decisions about whether to preserve information relevant to a child’s identity can have a lifetime impact on the child, and future generations, in several ways. Knowing one’s origins is fundamental to the child’s physical, psychological, cultural and spiritual development. Having one’s own identity is also a gateway to the enjoyment of the child’s other fundamental rights, such as those related to protection, health, education, and the maintenance of family ties.
Persons and organisations facilitating and/or undertaking surrogacy are not always aware of the importance of collecting, storing, and preserving identity information of children born through surrogacy, so the child can know their origins. In the absence of systems to preserve the child’s identity rights, restoration of the child’s identity may be impossible; particularly in circumstances where there is donor and/or surrogate anonymity. This also leads to challenges in birth registration and certification, as only a few civil registration systems are set up to record identity information related to family relations in surrogacy and other forms of assisted reproductive technology.

Women should not be having babies for men to raise.

So is it OK to have surrogacy if the baby is going to be raised by a woman?

I think the point that you're missing is that men sidelining women is always disgusting, especially when the point of the "thing" is something as inherently womanly as pregnancy and birth and even when the woman allows it.

I know three couples who've used a surrogate. To me they encompass the entire range - from utterly lovely people whose relative offered altruistic surrogacy and remains totally included in the child's life, through to a very entitled, privileged couple who moaned at the cost of the poor foreign woman whose body they used.

There is a world of difference between the first couple and the last couple, and the situations they have created.

All the couples are gay men but the only relevance that has in my mind is that it's probability easier to be a wealthy couple if both of you are male.

Regardless of my deeply positive feelings about the first couple, I still oppose surrogacy. I simply do not believe there should be a market for human bodies. Especially not humans of oppressed classes such as women & those of low socio-economic status. I also recognise the huge difference between adoption, which seeks to heal a rupture already happened, and knowingly creating a loss by planning to remove a child from its mother at birth. We know so much about infants in utero now and about the concept of the 4th trimester. I suspect there are professionals who would like to be speaking out on this but have had their hands tied by the fact surrogacy has been attached to the new "progressive" men's rights movement that nobody dare oppose.

I do wonder if there should be access to a legal framework for alternative mutually consenting families to raise children. This could benefit lesbians, single straight females and gay men.

For reference, here is the Tik-Tok video of two men holding two babies while a caption comes up saying “do they have a mum?” Followed by a definitive “Nope!” as part of the song. I’m posting it because I was trying to remember which two awful men it was and it took me a while to find it again. I’ll leave it to others to decide which is worse.

https://www.tiktok.com/@themorgantroddens/video/6962492556424809734

God almighty 🙄😢

Her body, her choice.

I strongly disagree with this. How is it in the baby's best interests? Surrogacy should be illegal. Poor baby.