I love Tessa Sanderson

[Glenthebattleostrich]

She is on bbc discussing trans inclusion in sports. She and a doctor from Stockholm are being very sensible the trans people are saying oh but its just mean and women being meany mean pants.

She is brilliant and being absolutely wonderful. The trans inclusion person started on about children's mental health and she countered with what about women's mental health.

Typical BBC attempt at transwashing and she is really standing up against it.

Tommy Lundberg has done work with Emma Hilton (developmental biologist at Manchester University).

She's on twitter and Instagram, but if you want to send a physical note her business management is here:
blackonsilver.co.uk

I don't see a postal address on their website but if you email they could probably one (theirs, not Tessa's private address, I'd imagine).

I guess Verity believes that transmen should compete against men at elite level then?

That was all a bit pants. I may try to do a time analysis of it because the Trans Warriors were allowed to witter on while Tommy Lundberg, who has all the info at his finger tips, was hardly allowed to speak. Angelica Bell wasn't up to the task there.

From what I recall of CofE policy, @Musomama1, they ooze sympathy for trans people - women, not so much - and they oppose homosexual acts. So they will tolerate a vicar such as Rev Richard Coles living with his now-late male partner, but no sex is allowed.

So - transition and get a GRC then you are in a straight relationship.

Keep complaining to the BBC. They have a duty to be impartial. This is a women's rights issue as much as a trans one.

Hypothetical question... if a male trans vicar (TW that is) went full op, would they be able to marry and have relations with a male partner?

Perhaps the question should be ....could a female trans person( TM) be able to become a Catholic priest, a Moslem Imam or even an hereditary aristocrat? The answer would be an emphatic " no" as the GRA accepts that in some cases sex trumps gender, notably when it is to the advantage of a male person.

Transwomen ‘We need to see what the science says on this ….. big hands…. average height of a women…, blah, blah, blah’

Sports scientist ‘the science is very clear on this and sports has already solved the unfairness issue by having male and female categories’.

Transwomen ‘ need to work with the science …. Intersex …. Blah,blah, blah

Sports scientist ‘ Out of 12 studies it is in sporting terms 12-0 men should not be competing in women’s sports.

Transwomen ‘blah, blah’

Anyone watching ‘??????’

Tessa Sanderson had such an impressive history in the Olympics.

Her courage across the decades is admirable.

It's because they had to put up with drugs cheats in the 1980s, particularly from the 1970s and 80s. Women you could see were on steroids or whatever, but it wasn't proven through official testing, or, by the time it was, it was too late to make a difference to those who missed out on medals. Sharron Davies should have been an Olympic gold medalist, she had to settle for silver behind a later proven cheat.

Now, the IOC is willing to ignore blatant, drug assisted cheating, normalise it, call it fair and celebrate it.

Coach Linda Blade, a top level Canadian coach, is really worth listening to on this subject. Before the most recent IOC rule change on trans athletes, the IOC only allowed transwomen with lower surgery to compete in the women's category. A Canadian trans woman cyclist realised their body could not function at anything near elite level without testosterone, and lobbied the Canadian Olympic committee to be allowed to effectively "dope up" on T. The IOC decided this would be a nightmare to police - how could they allow one athlete to take T and not the rest; so changed the rules in accordance with the (frankly laughable) Joanna Harper report to allow T reducing males to enter the female category instead, thus allowing them to dispense with the inconvenient lower surgery, whilst still retaining the sort of T levels which, if found in a biological woman, would lead to a doping enquiry.

Here's Martina talking sense in today's Observer:
www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jun/26/martina-navratilova-do-the-right-thing-interview?CMP=share_btn_tw

Another interesting fact is that even though all those East German women were doping and smashing female records, they still came nowhere near the male times of even clean male athletes.

Ive commented on twitter and it has details of her management company there too.

I watched the For Women Scotland press conference with Sharron Davies and Mara Yamaguchi earlier. Both are impressive, formidable women who are showing great leadership on this issue. They talk so much sense and with such authority and, dare I say it, lived experience. I’m glad to hear Tessa is a good ‘un too.

The poster upthread who commented on the terrific trailblazing female athletes of the 70s and 80s nailed it. I grew up with great role models, women at the top of their game, all shapes and sizes but all so inspiring. There have been many follow in their steps since. It’s maddening to think future generations of girls might be deprived of seeing fantastic women like them on the podium. I wasn’t particularly sporty but just seeing women being excellent and confident in their abilities was enough to put fire in my belly.

There’s nothing, I repeat NOTHING, inspirational about a mediocre male cheat smashing women’s records. It’s so profoundly disrespectful it might light a different kind of fire in young women’s bellies but I’d much rather they continue to have positive, inspiring women to look up to.

Apologies for the stray G in your surname Mara if you happen to be reading MN.

Tessa Sanderson is an absolutely magnificent woman.

@334bu agreed. You sometimes hear people implying that a 'trans category' would allow transmen and transwomen to compete fairly against each other but I think that option will fall apart fairly quickly as it becomes obvious that sex-based performance levels continues, and we will revert to open + female categories.

Women who have ever taken testosterone would have to go in the open category I suppose or would they be banned entirely from all categories for doping?

The opinion of various researchers is that transmen are the only people who would find themselves excluded from every category of competition because supplementary T will always be seen as a performance enhancing drug.

Cathy Devine spoke about her research here:

www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/17511321.2021.1993982?src=&journalCode=rsep20

Cathy Devine speaking about her research in a webinar:

@BettyFilous This is such an important point.

That's a great interview with Martina. Such an inspiration and unbelievable that she and all the other wonderful sportswomen speaking out get such grief from those who have contributed nothing to women's sport - and frankly very little to society in general judging by what they say.

Thanks EmbarrassingHadrosaurus. That clarifies it.

Exactly.
So many people, even those who accept that there is a male advantage, do not realise how massive it is.

This is where a trans category might be a good idea. It could include any female person who had masculinised themselves with testosterone or any male person who felt that running with other males invalidated their identity. It could also include xy dsd athletes who have gone through male puberty. The result would probably be that the xy people would still beat the xx people but since trans activists are generally cool with this it wouldn’t matter. The general public would generally be celebratory of the new category and wave flags. Personally I can’t see a downside.