Nadine Dorries to meet with sporting associations

[achillestoes]

Dorries has been making the right noises on the issue of male people in female sports for a while, but on Tuesday she is holding a meeting with Sport England and other bodies representing football, cricket, rugby, tennis and other sports. She intends to make it clear that she is expects sporting bodies to reserve female sports for people born female. I think the implicit message is that sporting bodies need to do this voluntarily or they will seek to legislate on it.

Does anyone know where Lucy Powell, the Shadow Minister for Culture and Sports, stands on this?

Well on the reality of womens rights the Tories seem to be the one’s talking sense and more importantly taking action in a situation most of us have sleepwalked into. I’m a floating voter so no pearl clutching from me about whether I’m rejecting the left. I’ll vote and support anyone who sheds sunlight on the reassure of women.

*erasure

She was not restricting access to abortion. She suggested a reduction to 20 weeks , which failed.

Let’s hope she is clear about keeping men out of women’s sports. I think making the men’s category an open one is exciting

Well, it's before thousands of women have even had their appointment for their scan, so that's a lot of them finding out the fetus won't survive but being told tough luck, too late, see you at 40 weeks.

It can take weeks to arrange a later/14+ termination in any case as hospitals don't always have the facilities or staff willing to perform them, then they have to be referred on to another hospital, get seen, get it agreed, get pre-op and ITU bed sorted out if they're higher risk (eg, BMI, anaemic, sickle cell, age, GD...). The longest I knew of was over a month when diagnosis came at 16 weeks. So they'd have had to wait months to birth a child that would die at birth. And that was when Labour was in power, putting shedloads of money into the NHS and the Trusts were almost fully staffed because we hadn't told doctors and nurses to fuck off back to their countries of origin with Brexit and the hostile environment.

@NeverDropYourMooncup there isn't a date limit for abnormalities.

‘Well, it's before thousands of women have even had their appointment for their scan, so that's a lot of them finding out the fetus won't survive but being told tough luck, too late, see you at 40 weeks.’

Was Dorries suggesting a limit of 20 weeks even where the baby isn’t going to survive? That would surprise me.

‘It can take weeks to arrange a later/14+ termination in any case as hospitals don't always have the facilities or staff willing to perform them, then they have to be referred on to another hospital, get seen, get it agreed, get pre-op and ITU bed sorted out if they're higher risk (eg, BMI, anaemic, sickle cell, age, GD...). The longest I knew of was over a month when diagnosis came at 16 weeks. So they'd have had to wait months to birth a child that would die at birth. And that was when Labour was in power, putting shedloads of money into the NHS and the Trusts were almost fully staffed because we hadn't told doctors and nurses to fuck off back to their countries of origin with Brexit and the hostile environment.’

That’s terribly sad. I don’t think the suggestion was to make women carry babies to term with unsurvivable conditions.

At present.

Look over there at that completely different issue to getting men out of women’s sports.

No-one seems to be suggesting one.

This silly conspiracy theory that the IK government is about to restrict or ban abortions is an utter irrelevance.

Well, it's before thousands of women have even had their appointment for their scan, so that's a lot of them finding out the fetus won't survive but being told tough luck, too late, see you at 40 weeks

Then presumably the existing exemptions for post 24 weeks apply?.

This

sport england issued guidance last year which basically said ‘you can be fair or you can be inclusive of trans ppl playing in their identified gender but you can’t be both’ they also noted that women in sport were scared to speak out on the issue.

FINA have followed the world rugby model - but if lawyers think it can be challenged then bring it on, court cases always bring a ton of sunlight

Yes, can people who wish to discuss a totally separate topic start another thread. I am sure I would not support Ms Dorries' stance on fiscal matters or women only shortlists etc,etc. This thread is about the injustice of allowing people ,who are ineligible to do so ,to compete in the female category of sports, to the detriment of all female participants. If people want to argue that the Minister is wrong to take this stance then give us your reasons .

As noted on another thread there is no discrimination against trans women in FINA’s decision - it’s entirely based on male puberty bring the basis for exclusion. as it always has been for womens sport

I’d like to see them tackle swimming - a bigger sports organisation than many and most likely with funds at their call to defend any legal action.

That’s using decades old information to deflect and assumes they telepathically know what a politician really wants?

They don’t have any valid argument against male puberty giving trans women an overwhelming advantage, do they? An advantage that those who have gone through female puberty cannot overcome, however hard they train.

I think Sharron Davies said women aren’t just smaller men who don’t train and try hard enough.

we are a separate category for well established reasons of inclusion and fairness.

I'm definitely no fan of Dorries, she can be unnecessarily partisan and divisive - but if the outcome of her meeting with sports leaders is the protection of women's sports I'll be happy. It isn't a requirement that you have to agree with everything that a politician has ever said or done to approve of a decision on a particular issue - or even their motivation in reaching it - provided that the outcome is worthwhile.

If the enforcing of rules that allow only women to participate in women's sports must wait for someone who is without fault to bring it about we could be waiting a v-e-r-y long time for someone with the requisite purity to arrive on the scene.

Just to note that transmen can already compete in the male category, subject to a Therapeutic Use Exemption.

That’s a bit off, too. They are taking performance enhancing drugs. It’s not like allowing someone to use an inhaler if they have asthma.

Ah, well Salbutamol is also a performance enhancing drug and you need a TUE for that too.

But even taking performance enhancing drugs, transmen don’t win elite contests in male sports.

What they are asking (transwomen in female sports) is analogous to me deciding I have the mathematical ability of the average or slightly brighter than most 6 year old child, and therefore entering myself in a maths competition for children. If I have the same mathematical ability as a 6 year old, they are brilliant at maths and I’m not, but I might still win. Yay.

Someone made the compeditive edge observation to me, that there appeared to be a lot of swimmers suffering from asthma with TUE's, after the Olympics pool competitions.

Whatever she is doing, it’s not because she has fairness or the best interests of women or anyone else in mind...... If she is actually doing something helpful then we should assume that’s an unforeseen consequence.

I think it's a huge mistake to assume everyone you disagree with is mendacious. You will constantly underestimate your enemy if you don't understand their motives.

I agree with very little Dories says but she clearly believes in her position on this. On this topic is alone she is probably the best person we could hope for to be CMS minister.

There is a current thread called The Overton Window. All those that have responded to the deliberate thread derails should read it. #ITrustWomen

And this has nothing to do with men in woman's sport. At least Dorries is doing something, precious few are.

the approach Starmer et al are generally taking is to leave it to individual bodies to decide. That leaves individual experts trying to push back against the might of Stonewall, mermaids, TELI etc.

This is why we need a specific law to protect single-sex sports, and our other single-sex needs. The Equality Act 2010 also needs amending to make it perfectly clear that gender identity does not outweigh women’s rights.