Guardian article about Kate Clanchy "The book that tore publishing apart: ‘Harm has been done, and now everyone’s afraid’"

[miri1985]

www.theguardian.com/books/2022/jun/18/the-book-that-tore-publishing-apart-harm-has-been-done-and-now-everyones-afraid

Interesting article but Sarah Ditum said it on twitter better than I could "I think it's a major flaw that this article broadly assumes good faith on the part of cancel-culture agitators. A lot of them are perfectly self-interested and borderline sociopathic" twitter.com/sarahditum/status/1538144622643494912?cxt=HHwWgIC-3dCYy9gqAAAA

foxandwindmill.co.uk/

I was going to recommend Mother's Milk books - but sadly looks like they're defunct.

foxandwindmill.co.uk/
I sometimes buy poetry from Speculative Books and Red Squirrel Press

www.luath.co.uk/

I love Salt books, Seren can be pretty good too, Black Shuck for literary horror... there are lots more.

Here you are TastefulRainbowUnicorn links/ quotes from other posters about the sort of books you were looking for- all there in the thread.

Wow you are really patronising. I'm not a mumsnet person.

I am! This is a really common pattern on this particular board. Different usernames, same type of “logic” , same frustrating Groundhog Day grinding on through dozens of pages of the thread arguing pointlessly and mindlessly with everyone else and then when argued into a corner reset to the beginning again.

Posters like this are a very overpowering presence on this board, but they’re a minority. I think they’re so persistent and aggressive because this is the Feminism board… Don’t take anything they say too seriously!

The thread is full of examples and links to the problematic pages. All you need to do is read the thread and the links already posted.

Problematic pages! Who said they were problematic? You?
The pages on this thread seem good to me thank you! I had a read through and it seems to me she's showing school the way I know it and she's really really humble about herself. Doesn't say she's super good at all. You could take a leaf from her book. But do you know what, why don't you put up a quote where you show how evil and patronising she is, and I'll take it in to Year 12 on Tuesday and see what they think! Deal? And then we''ll look at the Monisha Rajesh pages too. 😃
But you know what I just figured out? The big hole in your argument. You haven't got a victim. You're saying that MR is fine to describe a fat brown woman as a buffalo because basically the woman is not going to know, but its wrong for KC because she's hurting the kid's feelings. And I can buy that argument because I'm a fat brown woman and when I read the buffalo bit I feel a bit hurt but so what, she's not saying it to me and she is showing you an Indian train and poverty and global inequality and I think if I read the passage to my class they would be educated by it overall. So if KC is different where are the kids who are hurt by it. Are you saying some of them recognised themselves? IDK but I had a google and it said they stuck up for her. Were there other ones? As far as I'm concerned that bit back in the thread is about poverty and kids and its worth saying I recognise the experience. It's all different if a real kid was upset but if they weren't, then you, Lasswithadelicatenose are saying teachers shouldn't write things about their class if they do it without the kids knowing and to me that is you censoring me. So where do you get off with that? Produce a victim or answer the question.

Thank you. I honestly came on here because of my class in school and I've never been so wound up in my life! I've got a huge pile of exam scripts to mark too.

I've really enjoyed your contributions, @MissMurray ! You've said everything very clearly. And you're right that it is so exasperating trying to have a conversation with some of these commenters - they are just bullies, really.

On this point: I do have to read this book. But if it shows up classrooms all full of folk from round the world and poor kids then good on her! Providing she didn't upset any real kid of course? I'd like to be sure of that!!

She hasn't upset any of her students. She wrote composite characters, so they were not identifiable as any of the students she taught. Her students are adults now and were adults when the book was published. They have vocally supported her and defended her through all this. They have also suffered because of Clanchy's cancellers and bullies.

Honestly speaking as a mixed race person I don't think it's about one single word it's more the context. I'd call my dad chocolate-skinned quite happily but I can also see how it could be used patronisingly - either way it wouldn't be major unless it was in a paragraph with lots of nasty things. And this is a book, right? It's different if someone is making a speech about it, and drumming up hate.
i think maybe you can say the same about 'dwarf' like I have parent at school self-describes that way, really surprising, but I think it's nasty in the Monisha piece. It's the suitcase and the way they are going to hire him.
Monisha may be brown but she is not a dwarf!
But my real point is, don't censor just one word, it's never going to work. 😁

HatefulHaberdashery

I'm not going to quote your post as MN deleted a similar post on page 1. I assume the moderators do think the expression you refer to is insulting and degrading.

Thank you!!
I am so angry I had to stay!!!😉
I'm so happy the kids weren't upset. They are the ones who get to say IMHO.
I am very happy you get my point. I often think in school 'I could write a book about this!' and if I did I'd need to tell it how it is! It's not pretty! People should know , being serious!!

Oh okay fair enough. You mean we aren' t allowed to say she said it? But she did!!!

I think the reason some people find it dehumanising is the context of colonialism itself, where people of colour were treated as if they were of lesser value than the food items being used as comparators to their skin. Empire was set up to provide the aggressor countries with coffee, cocoa, tobacco etc., so comparing people to commoditised food items makes them feel commoditised themselves?

I understand, but again I think it’s too subjective to be a justification for censorship.

Yes, I think it's fine if you're trying to be descriptive about an individual, rather than describing an entire group of people. Let's face it, trying to describe any group of people is going to be a problem as we're not all the same in really any respect. Even white skin is not all the same shade, and white people can presumably be hurt by descriptions of milky or pasty skin. Any time you try to characterise an entire group of people, it's likely you're using a stereotype that isn't going to apply to everyone and may be hurtful to some.

But it's clear that this case wasn't about stereotyping.

That makes sense Achilles.

She hasn't upset any of her students.

You don't know that. We have no idea how the majority of her students feel, since only a couple of her students (ones who were described in flattering ways) have come forward to publicly identify themselves as being characters in the book.

It's common sense that the students who were described using flattering terms would be more comfortable publicly identifying themselves, than students who were described in disparaging ways.

It seems unlikely the students referred to as "feral", or mocked for being fat and having "double chins and rotting teeth", or the girl who was raped and had her weight gain after being raped scrutinised, feel as positive about the book as the girl referred to as having beautiful almond-shaped eyes does.

I didn't say anything inappropriate and neither did Miss Murray. The bullying on this thread is ridiculous.

She hasn't upset any of her students. She wrote composite characters, so they were not identifiable as any of the students she taught. Her students are adults now and were adults when the book was published. They have vocally supported her and defended her through all this. They have also suffered because of Clanchy's cancellers and bullies.

Right well that's my ancestors and I feel you. But I still think one word is too small. And honestly that's what I say in my classroom. The kids get really worked up and I have 'One Word is Too Small' rule. It just stops stuff getting petty.

Woah I have the search function on in the kindle now! You are so unfair! She is using 'feral' to say how bad a grammar school is. She's not calling students that word. See what I mean about single words! One is too small. Good classroom rule.
And I looked up 'double chin and rotting teeth'... nope. Not there.

It would seem some posters haven't read the thread. It has been pointed out on many occasions that the current version of Clanchy's book is a bowdlerised version which has been cleaned up. If you want to see the original book you will need to purchase a first edition of the original print version. That was explained (again) today.

The original text is quoted throughout this thread with links to articles ; including the Good Reads review which also identified these quotes; which Clanchy herself identified as racist but denied they were in her book, despite having written them.

Here they are (again) for anyone who hasn't read the thread.

www.google.com/amp/s/minamaauthor.com/2021/08/15/a-controversy-i-recently-read/amp/

www.theguardian.com/books/2021/aug/10/kate-clanchy-to-rewrite-memoir-after-criticism-of-racist-and-ableist-tropes

www.resetera.com/threads/author-who-received-mbe-to-rewrite-teaching-memoir-over-criticism-of-racist-and-ableist-tropes.470511/

www.culturematters.org.uk/index.php/arts/life-writing/item/3767-kate-clanchy-s-class-conflict

www.goodreads.com/review/show/3979946236