Marjorie Taylor Greene wants to make it illegal to take kids to drag shows

[SerendipityJane]

www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/06/07/marjorie-taylor-greene-child-drag-shows/

Abigail Shrier wrote a really good column on this - obviously MTG is wrong, by the right's own standards of individual liberty, free will etc.

But strategically she's 100% right - everyone needs to start making a huge stink about these things to recalibrate the debate, so it's more about "what is good for kids" and less "how young before the double mastectomy". And the more you drag the debate back to child protection, the less insane the consensus becomes. And tbf the bar for less insane isn't exactly high atm.

@SolasAnla

It’s actually no effort at all whatsoever for me distinguishing between groups and ideologies and individuals. I used to work in politics and that was a particular part of my employment.

Donald Trump and Marjorie Taylor Greene and their ilk represent the very worst of America and are actively trying to destroy the delicate democracy we are trying to hold onto.

Donald Trump has told 30,000+ verifiable lies since 2016 — he continues to lie about a free and fair election that took place almost two years ago. MTG has backed him in many of those lies. She also participates in QAnon and actively harasses mass shooting victims and her fellow members of Congress.

Currently, we are in the midst of illuminating hearings of the 6 January insurrection. Every hearing we learn more about former president Trump’s involvement in trying to override democracy and install himself as leader of our democratic republic — a roll he did not win and did not deserve. It was absolutely illegal.

Thank you, however I know from which I speak.

The "my brother was the nice serial killer argument".

The question being asked is should adults be involving young children with adult sexuality. As a society we (the adults) get to debate and set the rules. In some instance we decide that rules should be parental choice, in other instance that some rules should have the full force of the law which removes individual parental choice.

The question is, if drag an entertainment designed by adults for adults, then how do adults decide if it is a suitable medium for children.

Not all drag shows are sexual:

(Just as not all books or films are sexual)

@IDreamOfTheMoors

Your mistake it to think that I care what "THE PERSONALITY" is selling.

IMO, the US political system would do well to examine why THE PERSONALITY has become more important than a proven track record.

There is a difference between supporting the ability to ask if an adult entertainment (based on sexual activity) is suitable for children and support for an individual or group who ask the same questions.

The inability to distinguish between "is an adult entertainment (based on sexual activity) suitable for children?" and "by asking if an adult entertainment (based on sexual activity) suitable for children, I am supporting the other speakers" is becomming a distinct problem for democracy.

Not all murder books are about murder👍

What's really beyond the pale is people who think they can claim to speak for everyone who happens to have a shared chatachteristic with them. You have essentially completely denied their personhood and political autonomy, expect insofar as it is useful to you.

Women do not all agree with you about this. They don't all agree with me either, which is why I make no claim to represent all women, only myself. I can't imagine you are actually foolish enough to believe that they do in fact all agree with you so I can only conclude you think those other people don't really count as women. Which is a heck of a lot more offensive than a panto dame.

Pantos used to be fun, some of my siblings were regularly in one (in oz) and we went a few times. Its overt sexualisation, groping, language and especially kink I want got rid of in childrens entertainment, not one specific type of entertainment banned. It’s about defining the problem instead of confusing it with other things. Similarly, if a man feels like wearing a skirt that is not a problem. If they feel like wearing a short skirt, no underpants and bending over in front of school girls on the bus, then we have a huge problem.

I don’t have a problem with pantomime dames or drag queens, and I think it it’s really sad that some people feel so strongly that there needs to be a legislated ban against children seeing drag shows.

but the reason it has gotten to this point is the absolute lack of thought that has gone into organising events like drag queen story hour, and this lack of thought has provided a tonne of red meat to people like MTG.

It has become fairly obvious at this point that these events have been put on without consideration as to the audience, which is very young kids. In my experience, young children are often afraid of adults dressed in outlandish costume- like clowns or mascots. A drag queen in full make up, wig and costume (especially some of the costumes I’ve seen for DQSH) can be scary looking to many small children. This is reflected in the many online photos of the audience at such shows- the mums looks delighted but the children often look afraid. A lot of the costumes and behaviours have been very inappropriate. If the audience had been properly considered then there’s be less of a fuss.

Drag Queens are also not children’s entertainers. They’re used to working with an adult nightclub audience. For those that participate it’s likely for the chance at another gig (I assume they are paid) beyond their regular bar acts, but how much training are they given in performing for children? Are criminal record checks part of the process when hiring?

Then there’s the venues. I was horrified when I saw the picture of the drag show held at the bar with the “it’s not going to lick itself” sign on the wall. The people that organised that didn’t think for one second of the optics of that event or the legality of having children in a bar. Like, if you are upset that the right is equating LGBT with groomers and paedophiles, maybe don’t play into their hands by doing stupid, harmful stuff like that.

I guess what People need to ask is what is the point, the actual aim of DQSH? If it’s to show that gender is just clothes and it’s ok for a little boy to dress up as a Disney Princess if he wants, I don’t have too many issues as long as the costume is appropriate and the DQ has been trained and vetted for the event. But if it’s some sort of “LGBT inclusivity” project then I don’t think it is effective as it’s not really representative of the wider community.

I think that in general your second thought is correct - it's mainly an inclusivity event.

Libraries are an interesting sector. On the one hand they have a history for a good many years of being very significantly dedicated to political neutrality and free speech. And to their credit, for the most part when activists have directly challenged them on those grounds, around things like removing books, they have stood their ground.

On the other hand, they have tried to reshape themselves a little to seem more responsive to the community and as a kind of community hub. To that end there tends to be a lot of thought about how to welcome everyone and serve their needs. And then you can add to that something that isn't always well known, most librarians now are on the political left, and many of the national library organizations are very strongly political, enough so that it's become a contentious issue in some cases, the American national library association for example.

As a result, when they are thinking about inclusion, they are often now thinking about it through the lens of identity politics, EDI, etc. Because that is the lens many of the librarians in charge have, and quite a lot of them don't actually realize the extent to which that is a political lens.

In addition, many are getting their goals handed down from the political level. So for example, where I live there was a set of priorities from the government which centered on minority ethnic populations. In one library system the board and head library, who tend to be very woke, took this to mean that as much as possible all programming should reflect this as well as book aquisions.

So you have these people trying to figure out, how do they squeeze queer issues into children's programming? What about that is fun and relatable to kids? Well, probably nothing, really, but they are determined to get it in there one way or another.

Why? Drag shows are pantomime.

The Yale argument, a good Soufflé is the answer.

US bars, where an actual drag show (as opposed to a separate event like storytime) may take place, are age-restricted already.

Panto doesn't exist in the US.

MTG is just grandstanding.

She is a completely reprehensible human being and apparently now has Milo Yiannopoulos working for her. Yes, the one who was fired from Breitbart for saying things that were a little too....paedo-friendly😠

CousinKrispy ·
US bars, where an actual drag show (as opposed to a separate event like storytime) may take place, are age-restricted already.

And yet the clips of children in bars, inapproipate touching at storytime, teachers being sacked after school stage performances continue to circulate. In Scotland, children used for advertising (without consent of their parents), their faces uploaded on to promotion page with adult content.

The demand that adults should pretend that adult entertainment is suitable for children will continue to be rejected.

Personality V "is an adult entertainment (based on sexual activity) suitable for children?

I will probably get stick for this, but there is nothing that MTG can do that will make me aline with her. Nothing.

I've not seen those clips so I am not aware of incidents of children being taken into bars to see drag shows. If children are being taken to venues that are inappropriate for them, or their images being used without parental permission, then action should be taken and there should be legal protections already available.

The question is: Are you prepared to walk away from a situation you strongly believe is wrong just because you object to A PERSONALITY who is has come to the same conclusion as you?

And if currently there are no appropiate protections, should adults reject the option of putting protections in place because some PERSONALITY is getting media coverage or should the appropriateness of making a change be examined on its own merit?

A large part of the problem it that society ends up having to legislate for stupid because stupid insists that there is no law preventing "it".

Possibly, yes.

MTG's motivation is so far from my own that I can't just hold my nose and ignore it. It would be impossible to get rid of that particular stink. I really have no problem with keeping my convictions and drawing a line in the sand about who I will associate with.

Anyway I don't have to walk away. I just don't want to stand shoulder to shoulder with people like that and I won't.

Possibly, yes

I really have no problem with keeping my convictions and drawing a line in the sand about who I will associate with.

Anyway I don't have to walk away.

What is your solution for resolving the situation you believe is wrong ?