Twitter Row. Woman fined for transphobic comments

[GrimDamnFanjo]

Mother ordered to pay £300 to transwoman over 'transphobic' comments
mol.im/a/10911139

I though the police were overworked and understaffed and that there was a massive backlog in court cases due to the convid crisis.

Western society looks like its the last days of rome.

I would be on the side of #TeamAsteroid if the animal species could survive.

Well some of us are pretty phobic about seeing men where they are not supposed to be… good for her standing up for her rights.

Good to see the law dealing with priorities. I'm sure the cases against people making death threats against women are just caught up in the backlog and will be making their way through the system shortly.

Maybe Chinzia should just have said sorry.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10725407/Victims-blast-controversial-law-lets-sex-pests-escape-punishment-saying-SORRY.html

I have no issue with someone sending abusive messages being fined. It's not OK to say someone is a paedophile because they are trans (or any other group).

Without the full details of the case I think we have to assume the court got it right.

Now I'd bloody love to see all the Genderist dickheads who harass feminists get the same treatment.

I gather it's not just a fine but a Community Order as well.

Ogilvie was given a one-year community order with 120 hours of unpaid word [sic] and 15 rehabilitation days.

This is a story where we need a lot more detail to understand this ruling and to promote the understanding of what this ruling involves. A fine + 3 weeks unpaid work + 15 "rehabilitation days." What are "rehabilitation days?"

"Rehabilitation days" sounds very much like a euphemism for "conversion therapy".

Does anyone know what she actually said? I gather it was regarding the complainants genitals, but I would like to know the specifics so I know what constitutes a crime.

I would have thought it would have to have been particularly awful, but the way things are going I wonder if even referring correctly to the operation as a penile inversion is considered hate.

Judge said her views on transgender weren’t illegal so it sounds like it’s more what else she said. You can’t go round suggesting individuals are paedophiles just because they’re trans.

Well, without seeing any of the tweets I don't think anyone can really say who was in the wrong, here.

Fair enough, she was breaking the law !

I'd like to see the messages, to see exactly why the judge thought all the community work and 'rehab' days (wtf?) were necessary.

A Twitter spat for 7 hours? Just walk away. Life's too short.

How? Do you have access to what was actually said?

The row started over transwoman Ivy Burrows’ insistence that TW had the right to use women’s toilets etc. Chinzia Ogilvie was given a one-year community order with 120 hours of unpaid work and 15 rehabilitation days. She was also ordered to pay £300 compensation, a surcharge of £95 and costs of £85 and handed a restraining order not to contact the victim for 12 months.

That’s a heavy price for defending women’s rights to single-sex spaces.

If Chinzia has a crowdfunder I’d be willing to chip in.

I'm someone else who is keen to know what rehabilitation days are. Wtf?

I unreservedly do not accept that accusations of paedophilia can be made, no matter how fraught an exchange on social media.

If the fine and Community Order relate to that accusation, then the court has a better view of the appropriateness of the penalty than I do. (And I note the disparity to which FOJN draws our attention upthread.)

I do not know how much of the overall penalty reflects (if at all) the distress that Burrows reports.

My difficulty lies in understanding what the "rehabilitation" is and the content of that rehabilitation.

Beyond that, I need clarity on whether the penalty is wrt a breach of one or more of these relevant acts.

publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201415/ldselect/ldcomuni/37/3704.htm

I wouldn’t chip in to a crowd funder without any evidence that she wasn’t simply pretty offensive. Did she call them a pedophile? That’s pretty offensive!!

Ogilvie, of Portsmouth, Hampshire, admitted a charge of sending by public communication an offensive and obscene message during the exchange.

Well I'm guessing that as she has admitted to and been subsequently sentenced for the offence then yes the law has been broken.

The fact that the law is seemingly applied in a discriminatory manner is a separate issue.

If people break the law then they need to be called out on it, after all it is what is demanded for the other side to do.

Rehabilitation days do sound very much like the gulag though (in this situation)

www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-rehabilitation-activity-requirement-in-probation/rar-guidance

I unreservedly do not accept that accusations of paedophilia can be made, no matter how fraught an exchange on social media.

Note that accusations and insults much worse than this are made all the time on social media. So are violent threats. What makes this case so different from every other instance that the police and the CPS got involved? OK, it's a disingenuous question, because we all know the answer. The "victim" (and I'm putting that in quotes because it sounds like they gave as good as they got) is a member of a protected class - indeed, a sacred caste- and the culprit is a woman.

No one should be getting a criminal record for calling a man a pedophile, sacred caste or no sacred caste. What if she's telling the truth? This is the kind of precedent that will be used to criminalise victims for speaking up. If she's lying about him, there are civil remedies.

What if she's telling the truth?

Note that this still holds even if there's a 0% chance she's telling the truth in this instance. (Although apparently they knew each other for several years - my default presumption wouldn't necessarily be that the accusation came out of nowhere.) If someone gets a criminal record for calling a member of the sacred caste a pedophile, you can bet that pedophiles will be rushing to change their gender identity and report their victims to the police.

Didn't Elon Musk call that British diver a paedophile? How long was his community sentence again?

I think that a case like this should not be publicised without greater detail. The reporting gives no indication at all as to what was said and what we can conclude about what is acceptable and what is not. Not least as dishonest TRAs will misrepresent it.

And at the risk of victim blaming, I am sorely tempted to say that the failure to use the block button to avoid sustained harrassment suggests the the TW was more interested in arguing with and winding up and taunting into going too far a woman who just wants to stand up for women's rights, not a "genuine victim".

When it is a one off piece of abuse accompanied by a death or rape threat, then yeah, prosecute away. But when the accusation is harrassment after a very long and protracted argument, I'd argue that questions need to be asked as to why the block function were not used.

I'd really like to know the detail of this as, on the face of it, I'm not sure what her criminal offence was. The report I read earlier (not the one in the link) made it sound like she was convicted of saying the transwoman was a man. Which is biologically true. A fact of material reality.

But this thread suggests she called him a paedophile. But is this not just defamation/libel (if written publicly), rather than a criminal offence?

I'd personally like to be clearer on the facts here and also the law, which I feel I might not be fully abreast of in these times. And it's not as though one can rely on common sense or an application of reasonableness now.....

Also, where are all the convictions for then threats of rape, murder, harm to children of women who say things others don't like?

I would put money on the Staniland question having been asked of him somewhere in their Twitter exchange. And why might an adult male want to use same sex female facilities where teenagers and young girls may be getting changed.

I can’t wait for all the cases with regards to the death threats and rape threats and threats of violence against women to come to court.

Does anyone know when they’re due to start…. Anyone??

Ogilvie, of Portsmouth, Hampshire, admitted a charge of sending by public communication an offensive and obscene message during the exchange.
Well she did admit to this but its what women everywhere have to put up with on a daily basis and I don't see all those disgusting men in court being prosecuted.