Twitter Row. Woman fined for transphobic comments

[GrimDamnFanjo]

Mother ordered to pay £300 to transwoman over 'transphobic' comments
mol.im/a/10911139

Funny how the police have so much time for women who wrong think, which is what this is even if she was wrong thinking in a very rude way.

Yet they have no time for all the rape and death threats women get or even time for the actual rape and murders of women. Some of which it seems the perps might just have to apologise for in the future.

I don't care how rude this woman was on twitter, this is just another way of punishing disobedient women who won't do as men say.

I doubt this experience has changed her mind about who is a man in fact I'm sure it's just cemented it.

Agree that details are needed. Otherwise is is tempting to wonder whether the judge was influenced by the biased bench book and the privileged access that trans lobbyists have to the judiciary in order to "train " them in the special language and beliefs that trans activists hold. When an openly anti- woman ideology is allowed to give judges "secret training" it is reasonable to question to what extent it then influences the fair treatment of women in the courts:
hiyamaya.net/2021/10/19/gendered-intelligence-trains-judges-in-secret-i-am-going-to-court-to-try-to-break-the-secrecy/

Questions have also been raised about whether the repeated lenient sentences for child abusers who claim trans status are also being influenced by this very secret training?
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10887387/Backlash-transgender-paedophile-spared-jail-Peer-demands-review-sentence.html

'an offensive and obscene message'

This is a bit vague. To say the least.

Comments on the Mail article are interesting.

The article doesn't say what law she was charged under, but I assume it was malicious communications, same as Kate Scottow. Normally if someone called you a paedophile you'd sue them for libel, not report them to the police.

Scottow had her conviction overturned on appeal, so it's a surprising judgement in my view. It's very worrying if the police are going to start bringing criminal charges just for insults. Especially if - as seem to be the case - it's only one way.

So the offence was sending an "offensive and obscene message during the exchange." So was she prosecuted under the Malicious Communications Act? It's not clear. Normally if someone called you a paedophile you'd sue them for libel, not report them to the police.

It looks as if she was prosecuted under the same legislation as Kate Scottow, but as we all know Scottow's conviction was overturned on appeal.

It feels very concerning to me. If the police charged all the men who send abusive "offensive and obscene" messages to women on Twitter, they wouldn't have time for anything else. It feels very much like the misuse of the law to harass and silence women.

120 hours community service, that is a LOT. I hope she appeals. Is it now hate speech to state I don’t wish an adult male with male genitalia to access a single sex space reserved for myself and my daughter?

this could happen to anyone of us FFS

I know Chinzia and there is a personal family reason as to why she pleaded guilty. She's also had a lot of harassment from a certain TRA local ex councillor over the past few years including physical attack.
Friends are trying to persuade her to start a crowd funder, she'll have a lot of support.

Can the details be reported, I wonder?

Now, I have no idea of what the tweets were, but if it was just insults, it is quite striking that the police are chasing women who insult men (or what men regard as insults), but conversely don't bother with men who make violent threats against women.
Now that is obscene and insulting.
And, then you shake your head looking at the rapists and sex abusers who get away with saying sorry.
You can't help thinking there is one way of treating women for much lesser
(and debatable) transgressions, yet men can do what they will.

I don't understand the lying and level of dishonesty now being required, or expected.
I cannot pretend that I can ever see a man is anything else than his sex, maturity and species.
Or, a woman as anything else than her sex, maturity and species.

She added: 'The comments about my genitalia were humiliating and degrading. It's led to me being anxious and stopping me going out.

Are degrading comments about someone else's genitalia really necessary? I don't think so.

District judge David Robinson told Ogilvie her transgender views were not criminal but her 'behaviour became criminal' with the offensive messages 'demonstrating hostility' to transgender identification. 'The comments seen by Ivy and others left her humiliated and degraded and sought to sexualise her and suggest she was a paedophile,' he added.

Suggesting someone is a p*do because they are gay or trans or whatever is just unacceptable. It's a very serious accusation to make and wrongful accusations can ruin lives. I think charges were justified here.

Funny how the police have so much time for women who wrong think

Just to clarify the article makes it clear the judge said "her transgender views were not criminal" (see quote in my above post).

twitter.com/svphillimore/status/1523191991601082368?s=21&t=L9nfMXCshT7aSnmtLgB2aw

There one side of the discussion here.

120 hours unpaid labour is harsh for expressing political opinions, even if they did get heated.

The DM commenters are all supportive!

She wasn't charged for expressing political opinions.

Well. There was a cri de coeur about stickers and how dreadful it was to have to encounter the ones put up by women. Women who did not think that men were any kind of woman, ever. I'm now wondering how low the bar was for insult.

Now, I do know that many women (including myself) see men who insert themselves in spaces where women and girls are vulnerable/ in a state of undress as a violation of boundaries. Has the term 'violation' been latched onto by some men as literally stating something else, I wonder?

Some also refer to men who are complete as 'intact males'. Has that been run with as well, I wonder.

I do hope she appeals.

Are degrading comments about someone else's genitalia really necessary? I don't think so.

We don’t know the context or provocation, do we?

And even IF they’re not ‘necessary’, it shouldn’t be a criminal offence.

Remember how most of us, at least, were taught to ignore the mean kids in the playground who called us names when we were about - I don’t know exactly, say 5 years old?

What happened to that learning?

It is unclear if someone was directly called a literal something or not. Respondent said the the woman was 'insinuating'. So, from that doesn't appear to be an outright name calling.

Just out of interest, I wonder if the police charge everyone who calls someone that word. Or do they just single out women?

Trying to persuade her and also to consider appeal

There's no way that what she said to him (in response to his starting an exchange online) would be considered criminal or even particularly unkind, if he wasn't saying the magic word "trans"

Exactly

🤔

👍

As she pleaded guilty, I assume she's considering an appeal against the sentence rather than the conviction?

I wish she hadn't pleaded guilty, though I accept she had her own reasons for doing so. The case is massively troubling for freedom of speech. The criminal courts should not be used for dealing with insults and online arguments. Threats to rape and kill are another matter - though oddly the police don't seem inclined to pursue those cases.

Hard to comment without knowing the whole story, but two things strike me. First, obsessing about genitals is kind of necessary, sadly, in a world where the penis is literally weaponised. Self-id versus post-SRS is the issue for me in spaces and intimate care. I don’t want penises anywhere where I or my DD are naked, vulnerable or in need of privacy.

Second, the wording of the tweets made my flesh creep. If being accused of something is so damaging, then repeating it many times, repeatedly using your accuser’s name, and dragging out the exchange, seems odd unless your goal the entire way through the conversation was to have enough to go to the police about and prove your victim status.

Another one who would like to know more about the rehabilitation days. Who else attends these days? What is the content? Who are the trainers? How are they assessed? What happens if she is unable to attend one due to sickness or a childcare crisis? What happens if she doesn't appear sufficiently "rehabilitated" at the end?

I don't know how old her children are or if she works but 30 days total is a heck of a lot of childcare and if she works full time she will likely have to give up a full year of annual leave to be able to attend these (depending on hours/shifts).

When one compares this sentence to many others one sees as others here have done it definitely seems an excessive, unreasonable sentence, clearly designed to punish an uppity woman.