Scottish prison officials ‘can weed out’ inmates abusing trans rights

[Igneococcus]

The Scottish Prison Service says it can totally tell the once trying to abuse trans rights from those that don't:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2f3717dc-e676-11ec-9b02-3f136f233710?shareToken=88735806eadd7a1adcbe0433466937d3

So, the Scottish Prison Service basically decides who is "true trans"? That's rather transphobic.

The SPS thinks 50% of trans women are too dangerous to be in the female estate? Rather transphobic.

The SPS thinks 75% of trans males should be in the female estate? Transphobic much?

The SPS seems to think it can carry on this judgement of trans people when prisoners will have legal documentation of their self-ID-assumed gender identity? That will surely be illegal!

And if they're so good at determining who is abusing the system (which I thought nobody did..) then why are there reports of male prisoners "detransitioning" upon release from women's prison?

But really: Tell me you're structurally misogynistic without telling me you're structurally misogynistic.

What could possibly go wrong? A disaster in waiting. If the GRR bill is passed, officials will no doubt be very wary of challenging a person's gender identity (it's bad enough now!). The lawyers and courts will be busy that's for sure so at least they'll be some winners amongst the mess.

Updating the committee, he said that, as of March 31, there were 16 trans prisoners in custody across Scotland, with 50 per cent of trans women housed in the female estate and 75 per cent of trans men in the female estate.

I find this sort of thing fascinating. Do they not understand we can tell they are trying to avoid telling us exactly how many men are in women's prisons? Who in their right mind has agreed to house a female in the male prison estate?

So they are admitting it might be a problem. What genius came up with that.

This is farcical. We have no lie detectors. We’re utterly reliant on the honesty of males in prisons verbally asserting that they are women. Plus we’re shaming and shunning people who don’t agree so no one is going to stick their neck out and call liar if they could lose their job and be labelled transphobic.

Yes use of percentages interesting as it masks different numbers between male and female prisoners. Would be very interesting to see if ratio between male and female transgender prisoners is similar to the ratio in the rest of the prison population. Have seen elsewhere that only 1 transman may be in male estate.

Doesn't this likely add up to there being 4 trans men and 12 trans women in the estate, and therefore 6 males housed in women's prison, 1 female in the males'?

So much fir acceptance without exception huh...

I am genuinely horrified that the SPS has placed a female offender in the male estate. WTF were they THINKING?? HMP has very occasionally placed females in the male estate, but only ever as a very very short-term solution and under very strictly segregated conditions.

This is the nonsense (or genius, depending on your PoV) of recording gender over sex. You don't even know how many trans offenders you have, beyond their own say-so. They could be self-IDing as female, they could have had full gender reassignment surgery. They could even just be fucking with the SPS, because sometimes (and this is a revolutionary idea) sometimes prisoners tell lies.

How? How do they tell?

How is this ever ever going to work? If the bill is passed men can identify as women without question and obtain a new birth certificate showing their new gender? Am I reading correctly? If these people go on to commit a crime and are sentenced are they then automatically referred to as their reassigned gender and housed accordingly?

Doesn't this likely add up to there being 4 trans men and 12 trans women in the estate, and therefore 6 males housed in women's prison, 1 female in the males'?

Most likely yes but it could mean 8 or 12 transmen. The point is that they could easily have given numbers for clarity but they chose not to.

It seems likely, with a precise number like 75% and the relative male and female prison stats (even allowing for the finding in the Swedish study that those transitioning female to male showed higher levels of offending than other women) that there are four female transitioners, one of whom is in the male estate, and twelve male, six of whom are in the women’s estate.

Given the small number of women in prison in Scotland, six male prisoners in their estate is likely to cause significant distress or upheaval.

Don't worry, I've worked it out. Whenever they get a transgender prisoner, they borrow Layla Moran up from Westminster to see into their souls. Totally legit. She's even going to give them training at some point so she doesn't have to keep travelling up.

Have they had training from Layla {see into their souls} Moran do you think???

Aww.. you got there before me MoltenLasagne

The very premise that any males with or without a GRC should be in the female estate is absolutely outrageous. It is saying TWAW and this is not an accepted fact. The GRC was supposed to make it easier for transsexuals to change some of their documentation, not give them access rights to everywhere they chose. I am appalled to think of any woman identifying as trans should be allowed to be in the male estate. However , if the prison service is saying that person can be protected as a vulnerable person then they are definitely capable of protecting poor vulnerable sex offenders within the male estate. The GRA needs repealing, and the GRC scrapped.

Course they can.

Honestly molten you should be aware of Zoom. Layla could have a little broom cupboard like Phillip Schofield did, and look into souls from there. Minimum expense to the taxpayer, and it would give her a purpose.

A whole lot of this ^

'Being kind' and allowing a few people to change their documentation wasn't even a good idea in the first place (and they knew that if anyone fancies reading the transcripts to hear the objections and concerns being hand waved away), but extending it in this way to allow access shows cynical disregard for...well reality really. :(

Aw pants my quote disappeared.

I had intended to quote ClangyLeg.

I would really like someone to find the bit of legislation that states male people have a 'right' of access to females. This right keeps on being claimed. It's an appalling one. Where is it on paper? Where was the democratic debate on this? Where's the Hansard record? How many MPs felt females (well the physical bodies of females, their minds and consent is clearly of no relevance in this) were a resource that must be provided to males and this must be enforced upon females as necessary?

Which manifesto was this in? When did we vote for this?

Here is a link to the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee meeting on 7 June .

www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/equalities-human-rights-and-civil-justice-committee-june-7-2022

I interpret many of the answers given re prisons as 'Don't know ', 'Don't care', 'Didn't bother to think about that'.

if the prison service is saying that [transman/female] person can be protected as a vulnerable person then they are definitely capable of protecting poor vulnerable sex offenders within the male estate.

Exactly.

Twelve trans prisoners convicted of violence or sexual crimes have been accommodated in Scottish women’s jails in the 18 months prior to November last year.

That's all we need to know, really.

Only one woman on that Committee, going by the names. A committee of men are not concerned about women's safety.