A hidden horror: Domestic abuse is happening behind closed doors — and within closed cultures

[NonnyMouse1337]

I thought this was a good article highlighting that women from ethnic and religious minorities who experience domestic abuse and other coercive practices can be further marginalised due to a reluctance by various organisations and institutions to take a tougher stance on such issues out of a fear of being labelled prejudiced or racist.

thecritic.co.uk/a-hidden-horror/

Yes. We were talking about this back in the 70s and every decade since IME. Nothing changes.

This. 😢

Isn't this one of the reasons why the grooming gangs could continue operating for such a long time?

I have always been concerned with the way minority cultures are so often viewed from the outside as a homogeneous group, with the leaders' opinions standing for the opinions of entire communities. This can be particularly bad for women and girls if they have less say in a closed community.

"Isn't this one of the reasons why the grooming gangs could continue operating for such a long time?"

Yes.
Ditto FGM, forced marriage, etc.
Nothing will change unfortunately.

Thanks for the link.

This issue was highlighted following the Rotherham grooming scandal but I don’t know if any concrete policies have been put in place following the usual line about “lessons learned”.

This issue was highlighted following the Rotherham grooming scandal but I don’t know if any concrete policies have been put in place following the usual line about “lessons learned”.

I seem to remember there was a follow up report/assessment of some kind and they didn't come out very well.

I have always been concerned with the way minority cultures are so often viewed from the outside as a homogeneous group, with the leaders' opinions standing for the opinions of entire communities. This can be particularly bad for women and girls if they have less say in a closed community.

And who appoints these 'leaders' anyway to speak on behalf on an imaginary homogeneous group? A lot of these types of people, usually men, are platformed with very little pushback or criticism by various media outlets or government bodies.

And who appoints these 'leaders' anyway to speak on behalf on an imaginary homogeneous group? A lot of these types of people, usually men, are platformed with very little pushback or criticism by various media outlets or government bodies.

This is a known issue in every project that is looking for diversity of input from a representative population or particularly affected group.

I've no idea what the solution is. I would hope that there are women within these closed communities who have some solutions and are open to sharing them with people that they trust. I don't know how those parties find each other if there isn't already a relationship of trust.

I don’t know what the answer is. One thing that might help a bit could be people from un-closed communities, without beliefs that sanction abuse, welcoming women into their friendship groups as much as possible so that they have a circle outside their families. This way abused women from such cultures could at least confide in someone. I realise this would not change the attitude of not intervening ( because of ‘cultural norms’ ) on the part of officials who are supposed to. It might though at least help give a small voice to isolated women.

I think the brave social worker who tracked and exposed what those vile groomers in Rotherham were doing actually list her job. It is awful.

I really wish people on MN would stop refering to the grooming gang scandal as if it was an isolated case in Rotherham or Rochdale years ago and as if it doesn't happen anymore.

There isn't a single major town or city in the north of England that hasn't had at least 2 gang court cases, some towns have had 3 or 4 separate crown court cases, many involving dozens of defendants each. There are still many gang cases going through the courts at the moment.

It's still happening. Nothing has changed, if anything it's getting worse

I think we need to start being a bit more honest. Even if it makes us appear racist.

Why particularly do you think domestic abuse needs to be rooted out in particular groups? And what groups are you talking about? Is it country of origin or religion you are focused on and why?

Yes I come from one of these closed communities. It’s quite hard to do something about it, I’ve seen some things and it’s akin to modern slavery and even I was shocked as the person I was speaking to was mentioning this really casually. Problem is for a lot of women they are afraid to get help, often experience racism from people who are meant to help. I mean even on mumsnet, I don’t feel safe posting about a lot of things as I feel a lot of racists will come out saying things and not really wanting to help. And then I also worry people from my community will come out and say I’m exaggerating and gaslight me. That makes me uncomfortable. I know there are a lot of women questioning things but these men are so toxic. People keep bringing women over from back home for a reason so they don’t ask questions. Keep them financially weaker etc, many can’t speak English because they are prevented from doing so. My experience isn’t on a huge scale but I’ve seen enough to see that this is replicated in many places. Unfortunately a lot of women like me just move away and have not much to do with these people. I wish we could stick around and call it out properly but it’s so tiring when you’ve been a victim that you just feel relieved you are out of there. I mean when you experience racism it’s hard to trust someone who says they’re wanting to help, are they genuine or just wanting to feel superior? It’s difficult as I know there are people who genuine.

I worked for a domestic violence charity and when south Asian women were referred to our service, their whole file had to be anonymised. Their names were removed from everything and replaced with a serial number. Their name and corresponding number were then stored in a specific place only accessible to a handful of people who worked at that charity.
This was because there had been instances where people from that community who worked in positions which gave them access to information because their job role was supposed to involve supporting these victims (e.g police officers, social workers, GP’s) had seen names of the wives/ daughters of people they knew and they shared with their abusers that the women were seeking support and planned to leave etc. This would ultimately mean that the women would be forced to withdraw from our service by what ever means their abuser saw fit.
It is horrific what we allow women from these communities to endure.

Have you read the article linked to by the OP?

This was because there had been instances where people from that community who worked in positions which gave them access to information because their job role was supposed to involve supporting these victims (e.g police officers, social workers, GP’s) had seen names of the wives/ daughters of people they knew and they shared with their abusers that the women were seeking support and planned to leave etc.

That's absolutely awful!! 😡
Really angers me when South Asians are obsessed with putting 'the community' above everything and everyone to the point where it's more important to protect and support shitty men than the women and children affected by them.

We work adjacent to our local women's centre and they run support groups which are just tea and coffee but are there to signpost to domestic violence services and offer support.

There's just not enough help though. For any woman fleeing. It's not my area but when you add extra complications like a language barrier or cultural differences the service just isn't meeting needs.

There was a thread on here yesterday by a woman whose mil and DH were horribly financially abused by her fil. Community leaders (all men) were aware and did nothing to prevent it.

I'm not surprised dv is overlooked. It's a massive issue.

Yes @FrancescaContini an article that espoused the training of professionals to identify abuse and not write it off as a cultural norm/difference highlighting that cases were missed because people didn’t want to “seem racist” and yet was unable to name the group it was talking about. In fact had there been no mention of “honour killing” (as the author would like) we could have been talking about Catholics or Witnesses.

@Clymene was that the thread where she refused to divorce her husband and had lived in a house he gifted her on his child support and then on her son for decades?

Yea, that one.

How appalling to read those figures. Thanks for sharing, Nonny.

I witnessed some of the effects of this in Glasgow - isolated women, shunned by their community, ignored by the authorities.

There seem to be several issues that conspire to make it very hard for women from certain communities/demographics to get help.

Firstly, isolation, language barriers.
Secondly, racism from outwith the community encourages isolation & distrust of authorities.
Thirdly, fear of being seen as racist stops some agencies from getting involved.(police as well as social services, etc)
Fourthly, some cultural issues exacerbate the problem.

So I expect it needs to be tackled on several different fronts. As with most of these issues, what we need to do is talk more. We need to get past the fear of offending and upsetting. The reluctance to offend is understandable, nobody wants to say the wrong thing - but it is causing real harm and real problems.

Talking more or talking more clearly? Why did you feel the need to write “women from certain communities/demographics” was it because you are trying to keep the group undefined or are you worried by defining it?

@Clymene I’m not sure it really was that straight forward. Nobody should have to stay in an unhappy marriage.

Both talk more and talk more clearly.

I wrote 'certain communities/demographics' because it affects several different demographics, as discussed in the article. My own experiences referenced were with women in the Pakistani community - the article is discussing other groups.

Is it? How could you tell? Did you feel nervous about identify the group you were talking about as Pakistani? Is it easier to identify by religion?

I honestly think if we can’t name a thing we definitely can’t fix it.