A hidden horror: Domestic abuse is happening behind closed doors — and within closed cultures

[NonnyMouse1337]

I thought this was a good article highlighting that women from ethnic and religious minorities who experience domestic abuse and other coercive practices can be further marginalised due to a reluctance by various organisations and institutions to take a tougher stance on such issues out of a fear of being labelled prejudiced or racist.

thecritic.co.uk/a-hidden-horror/

@MagnoliaTaint i should say that reads like I’m grilling you which isn’t my intent. It’s just I don’t really understand what drives the reticence.

When I worked in a refuge it was very difficult for women from the Pakistani community to ever feel fully safe. Even if they came from a different part of the UK. They would worry about taxi drivers asking who they were, shop owners or other mums at the school gate. We had to ensure that we used a taxi service that only had white employees. Many wouldn’t join any support networks for Asian women because they were worried about people gossiping and then word getting back to their families. Even 100s of miles away. It was similar with the Traveller community.

We also had almost no Chinese service users, despite having services users from almost every other culture. I don’t know why. Either they seek support somewhere else or don’t seek support. Or maybe we didn’t reach out to them enough or they didn’t trust us. I don’t know.

It's all the unknowns that are potentially areas that could be addressed, PlantingTrees?

To be fair, these issues are also rife in Bangladeshi and Indian communities. There can be immense pressure on women in Hindu families for sex-selective abortions, dowry related abuse and violence etc and these deep-rooted issues don't necessarily disappear when people relocate to the UK or even if their families have lived here for a few generations.

I was just going to say the same.
Also Somali communities and Roma.

It’s communities where the reputation of the family is worth more than the women’s health and happiness.

When I worked in a refuge it was very difficult for women from the Pakistani community to ever feel fully safe.

That's not surprising. Ethnic and religious minority 'communities' are a double-edged sword. Yes it's human nature to gravitate towards people similar to oneself and certain areas end up becoming predominantly populated with certain ethnic or religious groups - whether South Asian, African, Muslim, orthodox Jews etc. It can help people feel safe especially if there's a perceived sense of racism or hostility in the wider population. But the serious downside, which inevitably affects women disproportionately, is that the women become insular and isolated and increasingly under the thumb and control of the men. The 'community' becomes oppressive and a prison because people gossip and this affects the family's 'reputation' and standing. And of course the burden of upholding this facade of 'reputation' falls on the women who are stigmatised, penalised and even attacked for daring to 'air dirty laundry' in public or approach 'outsiders' aka white people for help.

It’s communities where the reputation of the family is worth more than the women’s health and happiness.

Yes, all groups that have a greater focus on the 'collective' are susceptible to these kinds of problems.

There's always an eternal struggle between the individual and the collective. There are pros and cons to both, but also either extreme is terrible. The amazing aspect of 'western' culture (a term I'm using very loosely) is the respect and freedom afforded to the individual. This also benefits women in many ways.
But hyper-individualism is very detrimental to society - with a push to maximise individual freedom with no personal responsibility and we are seeing the effects of this trajectory too, especially on women.

The flip side is there are positives to collectivism and putting aside some personal freedoms for the common good. However, prioritising the community over the individual at all costs means people end up supporting abusers and violent predators instead of protecting women and children. Individuals that go against the collective are treated as the problem instead of the perpetrators, because of the stupid idea that 'outsiders' shouldn't see the bad side of the 'community'.

I just wanted to say that this is a really helpful observation.

My personal experience is that non Asian people tend to dismiss Asian women suffering dv as a cultural phenomenon.

I was reluctant to seek help because I didn’t want to be a party to the all Asian Muslim women are oppressed and the men are abusers.

when I eventually did seek help, I was treated as an anomaly. I’m well spoken and educated so I was told I was free now and could throw away my headscarf. As if I was just waiting for permission to renounce my religion, way of life, identity everything.

in court during a fact finding hearing the white female judge dismissed a witness telling her about bruises she’d seen on me as it’s cultural! As in its culturally acceptable and normal for men to beat their wives in my culture. First I knew about it, first any of the men and women in my family ever heard about it.

I hated being held up as a typical Indian Muslim woman, and all the white people going oh yeah poor oppressed little Muslim woman that’s just what what the lives of women like her live. It’s really not.

Funnily it wasn’t until I came on MN that I found that my life was typical of a lot of women. Across all races and religions/non religions. Abusive men and an enabling society which panders to the male ego.

I'm so very sorry, frazzled.

Yep, that enabling crosses all cultures. People still resist knowing about this stuff, the urge to 'turn a blind eye' is very strong.

It can help people feel safe especially if there's a perceived sense of racism or hostility in the wider population it isn’t a perception it’s fact.

I too hate the downtrodden Muslim wife ego driven brutish Muslim husband stereotyping.

@frazzledasarock · Today 12:02

I am very sorry, frazzled.

"Why particularly do you think domestic abuse needs to be rooted out in particular groups? And what groups are you talking about? Is it country of origin or religion you are focused on and why?"
That lovely book the so called holy quran cheerfully stares that a man is allowed to hit his wife - it also says a wife must obey a husband
I have worked with 2 muslim men who honestly thought that hitting their wife was Simply not anything to be condemned or in any way unusual.
One if them when I said I and the other half had a slight disagreement actually said "just hit her - then she will understand who is the boss"
I kid thee not

The Bible has similar themes. If you genuinely want people from other religions backgrounds to engage I’d avoid phrases like “That lovely book the so called holy quran” as they’re highly offensive.

@PlantingTrees Your post reminded me of a couple of incidents when I was away at a small uni about 30 years ago. We had an Anglo-Indian girl in our class whose family was from the midlands. Our college was 100 miles away from her family home, and I distinctly remember going into the local newsagents down the road from our halls, and her being grilled by the owner. She wouldn't tell him her name, or where she was from, or the course she was doing, but he made it his business to find out. A week later, he called her by her name - it absolutely made my blood run cold.

A couple of months later she came to visit my family for the weekend, and we went out for the evening - taxi drivers on both outbound and homebound trips spoke to her in hindi to find out about her, and if she was single, what she was doing out with a white girl, did her dad know she was going out drinking etc. Her dad was a stalwart in the local community and later had her married off to her sister's husband's brother, who had come from India. She had no choice in the matter, wouldn't go against his wishes despite our friendship group saying we'd help as much as we could, and once she was married her new husband forbade her from working, or keeping in contact with her white friends. I have no idea what she is doing or where she is now, but I think of her often.

I don’t work there anymore so wouldn’t know.

What the job did teach me is that DV is very widespread, across all cultures and backgrounds. I had to stop working there when it all got too much for me. It felt like I recognised so many street names from women’s addresses that I couldn’t walk around my city without thinking about it. I did meet some incredible women tho and some utterly worn down women. It really made me realise that White women are able to have a level of anonymity in a new home that others aren’t. One woman in our service had been somehow tracked down by her mum after 10 years of being in hiding. And was now at risk from her brothers.

I saw a film recently, which is indeed about a horror, and a murder of one woman but it is much more than that, more than a murder, and about more than one woman. There are so many layers of terrible things that went on and that were done and not done, cruelty upon cruelty and suffering that is hard to contemplate, and the fact that she had tried to save herself, had made a coded written record and had gone to the police, as had her boyfriend; even after her death, cruelty and callous deception - a women's rights organisation honoured her in her burial place - and the tragic aftermath for her boyfriend. Her name, Banaz.

This needs to be repeated.

But that’s what you’re clearly looking for, 5zeds. You make it up when you don’t find it.
WTF???? You think I make up stereotypes about aggressive Muslim men? Are you serious?