So disgusted tonight

[Mollyollydolly]

Owen Jones and Pink News tweeted about the two Helens, Joyce and Staniland and their YouTube chat .. Jones taking what they said completely out of context it's resulted in some of the most vile abuse aimed at Helen Joyce in particular on twitter tonight. So many death threats.

I wish there was something we could do, it's so utterly vile, it's time they were held to account for their lies. It's really upsetting.

Owen Jones isn't fit to lace Helen's shoes, I cant believe The Guardian still employ him. I've seen threats to murder, throw napalm in their faces from Joss Prior and many many more. It's disgusting and all down to Owen.

How can this stand up to any level of journalistic ethics or integrity.

It's time we did something, some kind of collective action.

This is the crux of the issue. Is gender dysphoria an identity or an illness? I lean towards the latter view.

I've asked quite a few trans people/activists whether they would like to see a cure for gender dysphoria.

i've had various answers. Quite often they don't appear to understand the question. Which was interesting.

No one has said yes though. And of course, as I said, we're not seeing a big push, or any kind of push at all, to fund research into it and find a cure/cause.

I can readily believe that that is because the number of people who have genuine gender dysphoria is minuscule.

As it's difficult to tell the difference between people with dysphoria and men who've claimed dysphoria to seize the opportunity to get one over on women, I don't think I'm going to be able to go along with that, spaceghost.

That is because the logic of trans activism wants to have its cake and eat it @Datun. It wants us to accept that being trans is all suffering and being burdened with a condition you were born with, and it isn’t a choice, so everyone has to understand and accommodate it. It also wants us to accept that being trans is so wonderful and actualising that nobody should ever worry about or try to help them, because we can’t possibly understand.

I’m afraid I don’t think it can be both.

Indeed. Nothing about the movement is known for its logic, is it!

Gender dysphoria is so dreadful, that a liberal sprinkling of egg shells needs to proceed your every step when you're around it. But a cure? Nah, you're alright.

Gender dysphoria is so dreadful, that a liberal sprinkling of egg shells needs to proceed your every step when you're around it. But a cure? Nah, you're alright.

Opps , pressed post too soon.

My reply was that a cure should be mandatory and the only course of treatment available.

Gender dysphoria is so dreadful, that a liberal sprinkling of egg shells needs to proceed your every step when you're around it. But a cure? Nah, you're alright

YY.

Personally I don’t agree with mandatory cures for anything. If you have a broken leg and want to keep it that way, it’s your decision at the end of the day. Just don’t demand I say humans are a race of people with either one or two entire legs.

Yes I agree with Tabby. Everyone has the right to refuse medical treatment. But people in authority should stop giving these people the false idea that the entire world is going to bend to accommodate their personal beliefs that sex doesn't affect our lives and doesn't need to be taken into consideration. They will keep pushing the boundaries, because it is psychological and all about power and control. Eventually they will have to be told by society as a whole that no, that's not how it works.

No, I don't think you can force a cure or treatment on anyone. But it's interesting to note that it's not even desired by many. they don't even appear to understand the concept.

The treatment has to be in the shape of things like the grimly euphemistic 'titty skittles'. Not, examining the reasons for transition in the first place and attempting to address the cause.

Because of course, what is so evident, is we are talking about different reasons for transition. Transition is just a generic umbrella term for the state of being to counter (or accommodate) separate and wildly disparate conditions.

And if the Helens have done nothing else, they have at least opened up the discussion into what those are.

It’s fine if someone doesn’t believe there’s anything wrong with them and they want to alter their bodies. I accept that and I accept them. I will not lie for them.

I suppose the tenet of genderism is that people are born with the brain in the wrong body; the 'cure' is seen as fixing that body by whatever means possible - attempting to change one's sex. The idea that one could attempt to treat the brain is heresy. (see 'conversion therapy').

I suppose gender identity is seen as sacrosanct, immutable, presumably somehow akin to a 'soul'. Whereas the body is merely a mute meat-suit. Transhumanism, etc.

Yes exactly, people who subscribe to gender identity ideology find this offensive because they believe there is a cultural thing called transness which is something which should be celebrated. Fine, but it's being conflated with something a lot of people view as a psychological condition, gender dysphoria which for genuine sufferers seems to be seriously distressing and operate like other body dysmorphia issues.

Well said!!

Nailed it.

Gender dysphoria is so dreadful, that a liberal sprinkling of egg shells needs to proceed your every step when you're around it. But a cure? Nah, you're alright.

And this.

None of it makes sense!

The treatment has to be in the shape of things like the grimly euphemistic 'titty skittles'.

Or #yeettheteets. Or even 'top/bottom surgery'.

Why the need to sugar coat this stuff?

"I've asked quite a few trans people/activists whether they would like to see a cure for gender dysphoria.
I can readily believe that that is because the number of people who have genuine gender dysphoria is minuscule.
Or have you ever thought that instead of c ming to the conclusion that people who are trans must be. a miniscule number because they haven't answered yes to your '' would you like to e cured" question 🙄 that they don't see themselves as being ill, as needing a cure, it's just part of who they are?
Would you ask people who are gay if they wanted to be "cured" if they could?
No, I'm guessing of course not, so why is it OK for you to if they're trans? Are they fair game or something?

Why do trans people need special 'trans healthcare' like mastectomies, hormones and genital surgery if they're not unwell? Is it just cosmetic?

Then they don't need any treatment, do they, if they are fine as they are.

Cure for gender dysphoria, Janet, not a cure for trans. Or are you saying you can only be trans if you have gender dysphoria? 🧐

‘Would you ask people who are gay if they wanted to be "cured" if they could?
No, I'm guessing of course not, so why is it OK for you to if they're trans? Are they fair game or something?’

Right, but again this gets back to the core issue: what is being trans? I know what being gay is.

But if being trans is best understood as a mental health issue (we know being gay isn’t) then talking about alleviation of the difficult feelings rather than a physical redrawing of the body (which carries profound health risks) isn’t anything like suggesting a cure for homosexuality. And if it isn’t best understood like that, fine, but it would be helpful if someone could explain why not.