Argentina, gender self-id and risk to women

[Foilball]

I thought this was an interesting article. 10 years ago Argentina passed the world's first law allowing trans people to change legal gender on demand. There were/are concerns that this would put women at risk.

Officials say data shows no rise in violence against women.

"We haven't had situations of violence from our travesti and trans sisters," said Candelaria Botto of Ecofeminita, one of the country's most prominent feminist groups. Other feminist groups FEIM, ELA and Colectiva La Revuelta agreed.

Greta Pena, a senior policy officer at Argentina's equality ministry, said there was no evidence of any rise in violence against non-trans women since the law was passed.

The article also says that one trans woman (of 12,655 who changed their legal gender) was convicted of sexual abuse and cites 2 instances (over a 10 year period) of men 'abusing the loophole' to go to women's prisons.

www.openlynews.com/i/?id=21757767-4909-4844-922f-41903ff042f8

Obviously there are differences between Argentina and the UK. The differences between life expectancy for trans people here Vs argentina seem stark, with those in Argentina sadly dying much earlier and having less access to employment.

I'd be interested to hear thoughts - whether people find this reassuring, or not relevant at all.

I don't care if all TW are celestial angels certified by the pope. They are not women and I still don't and them in single sex spaces.

I'd be interested to hear thoughts...

Why don't I believe you?

Argentina passed gender recognition laws in 2012 but did not legalise abortion until 2020. Nearly 20% of girls in Argentina cannot access education. One woman is killed every 32 hours.

It is a male dominated culture, woman are second class citizens.

Clearly your Google search did not find the reports of sexual assaults by TW in prisons. One female inmate was beaten by the TW who got her pregnant, the judge gave the TW early release.

Not sure things are working out quite as well as you would like to believe.

Awful to hear that Argentinian girls have so little access to education and that abortion was only recently legalised. You're right, I'm no expert in Argentinian culture.

Argentina.

Where a woman is killed every 30 hours, it ranks mid class in the sex equality index because of lack of economic power and healthcare, where abortion has only been legalised since two years and is still unavaialbe for most... that Argertina?

Yes, I think the lack of evidence for problems with self id is not because of the absence of issues and problems but the fact no one cares about even more problems for women so nothing is registered.

The same was applicable for Norway. There statistics showed hundreds of percentages increase in sex attacks on women by women. Because no one had informed the researchers 'woman' now also meant man. If you don't register who does what, you can't gather evidence either way.

Women's Declaration International channel on YT has Feminist Question Time videos with contributions from Argentina, Brazil and other comparable countries for anyone with a special interest in that region and the lived experience of women there.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWECmp5Tk3epYSkjs0qAKKQ

That's interesting, thank you Sanluca.

It says in the article that: "No one has all the information, but violence (by trans people) ... isn't a problem that data shows," said Carla Majdalani, head of the UN Women's programme against gender-based violence in Argentina. - as you say this could be a reflection of how data is collected as anything else. Garbage in, garbage out as they say.

the lack of evidence for problems with self id is not because of the absence of issues and problems, but the fact no one cares about even more problems for women, so nothing is registered.

This.

Interesting sentence:

Possibilities for misuse do exist in the self-ID law, but instances are rare, said Ana Clara Piechestein, a law professor at Buenos Aires University.
"For every law there's a loophole," she said.

Instances are rare. rare so they are there. But who cares, right? Sorry, this makes me so mad. As if not every woman counts

Another interesting sentence:

Much else in day-to-day life has not changed.
Discrimination and poverty rates are high among trans people, according to a 2017 survey by the Buenos Aires city government, with life expectancy at just 32 years against an average of 76.

So basically the law changed, but it hasn't improved anything for trans people. So a law has been implemented, that sometimes causes problems for another group and actually did nothing to improve the lives of the group it was meant for. So negative consequences and no positive. Crap law then

I take your point, but I wonder if the factors involved in such a low life expectancy would more time than 5 years to change significantly (law changed in 2012, study in 2017).

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4281846-Feminism-in-Argentina

As with most countries, feminist organisations do not all have the same stances or positions on 'gender' issues.

If you have stopped collecting statistics the 'problem' goes away.

Life expectancy no, but surely if this law was for the benefit of transgender people you could realistically expect in ten years a change in economic and social status? Isn't that one of the reasons to do this change? Why else is it needed?

This.
Male = not a woman. I don't give a stuff if they're Hayley Cropper or Creepy McCreepface. The answer is NO.

Awful to hear that Argentinian girls have so little access to education and that abortion was only recently legalised. You're right, I'm no expert in Argentinian culture.

You might want to look at the state of womens rights in several of these trailblazing countries OP.

It Never Happens, Argentina Edition:

https://www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-detainee-who-impregnated-fellow-inmate-is-released-from-prison-to-prevent-further-incident/

If a transwoman is legally counted as a woman, how on earth are there then supposed to be statistics telling us the results of this experiment?

How do you think self ID will impact life expectancy?

«The same was applicable for Norway. There statistics showed hundreds of percentages increase in sex attacks on women by women. Because no one had informed the researchers 'woman' now also meant man.»

Have you more information on this @sanluca

www.womenarehuman.com/are-women-really-committing-more-sex-offences-now/

A good video to watch on Christina Ellingsen from Norway on the situation there

she is now being prosecuted for 'wrong' tweets
reduxx.info/norwegian-feminist-facing-up-to-three-year-prison-sentence-over-tweets/

Have you more information on this @sanluca

Details here for UK, Norway and Canada.

www.womenarehuman.com/are-women-really-committing-more-sex-offences-now/

I was replying to a poster who felt that the changes in law didn't seem to be benefiting trans women in terms of life expectancy.

I see that Argentina have now passed another law (around a year ago) to encourage employment in this community.