How is being trans like being LGB?

[WandaWomblesaurus]

Just as an experiment can we only have answers that show how they are like each other?

The only thing I can see is that there is an overlap between some gay/lesbian/bi people who transition.

But then there are LGB people who are a percentage of every community ie: swimmers.

So what else makes them alike?

I don’t understand what you are asking.

LGB is about sex.
Trans is gender ie how you identify.

they are entirely different.

any letters after LGB are about identity ie queer, etc.

They aren't. Hence a lot of LGB people don't like being lumped in the same category.

This is exactly what I'm asking. So many ploppers will equate the LGB to the TQ+++

So I'm looking for answers only that describe the similarities and what logic there is for that.

I predict there is not much of it.

LGB stands for same sex attracted. All the letters after refer to straight people. They are not the same.

I assume it's about being a minority group

I’ve never got a clear answer why they have been lumped together.

LGB is sexuality. Everything else is identity.

But then wouldn’t all minority groups be lumped together too seeing as they don’t even need to be about the same thing?

A lot of drag queens were historically gay. The gender bending aspect was welcomed at Pride.

There's also an assumption that Transwomen are effeminate gay men.

Potentially historically lesbian women disguised themselves as men to avoid scrutiny.

I think that's as much as I can link it.

They are not heteronormative.

It assumes that 'normal' is straight and gender conforming. Regressive really.

I thought a few years ago that we were finally at a place of acceptance- no one seemed to care about the several families in school with same sex parents, there was no gossip when a mum's first relationship after her divorce from the kid's dad was with a woman. My street in a pretty boring, typical area has multicultural and gay families outnumbering the straight white households. I honestly thought it was all passé.

Because stonewall needed another project once same sex marriage was legal. Otherwise they had achieved their objectives. So they focussed on trans. Yet for years I donated to them not realising what they were quietly doing to women’s rights. That’s why LGB was linked to the letters. Thankfully LGB alliance has been set up to represent LGB.

@PeekAtYou interesting that disabled and BAME people are also minorities and yet they've managed not to shoehorn themselves onto that letter spaghetti isn't it?

The two are mutually exclusive. Which is how we have reached the ludicrous position of lesbians being vilified for refusing partners with penises, who try to insist that they are lesbians too.
One group believes in science, facts and biology, the other denies reality in favour of gender woo. Completely incompatible, and were only tag teamed in the first place because Stonewall had become redundant and needed a new money spinner.

No-one really cares if people are gay or straight these days, it is perfectly normal to be either. What is not normal is that people are being asked to deny biological reality and that Stonewall and their trans rights agenda have too much power and influence. I still don't know what rights trans people want that they don't already have in 21st Century Britain. Trans people have the same rights as everyone else, they do not deserve or have more or less rights than the rest of the population.

I personally don't see the link between LGB sexualities and gender identities. It is Stonewall etc that have made this link as they needed a new cause to continue functioning/making money/having influence.

Really interesting question op. I can see the one is sexuality, one is identity argument.

I presume it was about being in a minority, but then you could say T has more in common with different minority groups.

There is a sexual element with T as Stonewall et al opened up definition to include people who are AGP or simply dress up as a fetish. But then this isn't necessarily same sex attraction.

I think it's confusing and makes it too easy for (certain) people to cry bigotry if someone disagrees with aspects of modern T activism/ideology as they've been lumped in with LGB.

Feelingoktoday · Today 08:45

I don’t understand what you are asking.

LGB is about sex.
Trans is gender ie how you identify.

they are entirely different.

any letters after LGB are about identity ie queer, etc.

Well, LGB is not about sex, it is about sexual orientation. Trans people are - by definition - binary males or females just like the LGB community and us boring, old, should-be-euthanized-really, straight people. But, I think that many in the TQ+ community probably do see it as being about sex, as in "doing it".

I think that - in the eyes of many in the TQ+ community - trans people are just like the LGB community because they are all part of a sex-obsessed, kinky, fetishistic, interesting, queer, movement, distinct from the boring vanilla straight sex that inferior right wing people have.

At a push marginalised.
Although as op have pointed out LGB less so now.
I’m keeping a close eye on the rest of the alphabet spaghetti.

But then wouldn’t all minority groups be lumped together too seeing as they don’t even need to be about the same thing?

Are you serious?? Er….BAME…

Its obvious why T was added to LGB initially. A lot of T people were traditionally gay men or lesbians, and were treated as different or perverted, like gays and lesbians were, so it made sense. I’m fairly sure you know that?
What T has now become is far removed from what it was, and there’s another matter, but the reasons they were considered similar are obvious.

As I understand it, the connection is that historically a gay person coming out, prior to wide social acceptance of homosexuality, was told:

a) You'll grow out of it. It's a phase.
b) Nonsense, you just haven't met the right person yet
c) How grotesque and abnormal. That is not the natural way of man and woman
d) Just bury it. Normal life is so much easier.

These are all criticisms/advice currently levelled at trans people.

There are colossal differences but these are the similarities.

Because the prejudice and stigma faced by people who experience same sex attraction and have same sex relationships, and that faced by people who are gender non-confirming, trans or non-binary, stem from the same source - the fact that they do not conform to norms and expectations regarding how a person should feel, behave and present, on the basis of their biology.

Some camp gay men wear make-up and cross dress: some butch lesbians wear male clothing and cultivate a masculine look. But traditionally they were allowed to be proud of being gender non-conforming men and women.

Then along came queer theory and the denial of the body, and you are what you wear.

Transwomen were always welcome at the gay clubs I used to frequent back in the day but any who started to hit on lesbians would have been given short shrift

If that were true why do so many gay people reject the idea that trans is related to homosexuality? Is it internalised homophobia that lesbians reject trans women? It strikes me more that many gay people honestly don't believe making changes to your appearance have anything to do with what your sex or sexuality are. Just as many hetero people think. Its a big leap of faith to accept a strangers word that they really are a different sex (not to mention a big risk in certain situations).

What has made them alike is that the lobby group Stonewall now get most of their funding from trans interests. Its a powerful wealthy global organisation that needed a new source of income, hence the rainbow alphabet soup was born.

i don’t know any gay, lesbian or bisexual people in real life (speaking as one myself) who don’t see that the LGBT+ community is fundamentally intertwined and the challenges we face are closely connected. I know there are LGB people out there who feel differently, but I don’t think that’s the majority view.

Most of us find the current hostility against trans people pretty upsetting, not least because it’s so reminiscent of what we faced in the past.

On a basis of gender stereotypes you mean?