Can anyone help me complain about this?

[sunflowersandtomatoes]

This is my first post on the Feminism board, but I've been reading you all for years, and have so much respect for you, and now I'm hoping you can help me deal with my first example of gender craziness in the wild. I've NCed for this, sorry about that, I just don't want any of this to be traced back to me.

So I'm doing a course - the first step towards training to be a counsellor. I'm not sure if I will do the subsequent levels. It's a course where you have to do a lot of soul searching, and a lot of it is about getting to know yourself, and talking about your own motivations and barriers and stuff. Interesting, although I find it a bit much sometimes.

A small part of last week's big assignment was to think about whether there was anyone we would find it difficult to listen to or help. I thought, and wrote, carefully, and I came up with this:

"I see gender as a social construct and I don’t believe that someone can change sex, so I don’t believe that transwomen are women. I espouse and defend people’s right to identify however they like, and I would always be respectful of chosen names and pronouns. However, I would find it difficult to listen to a transwoman talking about their struggles with their gender identity, and I don’t agree that affirmation is the best way of helping a young person who experiences gender dysphoria. Ultimately, I just don’t think I could be hugely helpful to someone with those kinds of issues, and I wonder whether that will be a problem in the future."

I think it's respectful and honest, but my tutor chose, in her feedback, to focus exclusively on this paragraph, to the exclusion of the other 1900 words I wrote, and sent me this:

"I acknowledge that you have identified a specific area that you would find it difficult to work with – gender identity. It is good and ethical to identify this so that when you work with clients you have the relevant experience and skill set and are giving them what they need. There is some interesting material on different websites around this subject: Gendered Intelligence, Mermaids and Stonewall, to name a few, which may broaden your understanding and research around this. It is worth mentioning here that gender identity is one of the nine protected characteristics in the Equality Act 2010 and as such it is unlawful to discriminate against someone on the grounds of their gender identity just as it would be to discriminate against race, religion or disability to name three others on the list."

I am so angered by this, which is why I'm finding it difficult to respond! I am very well read on the subject (although not as well read as some of you), and I find her suggestion that I should read those bullshit websites (again) to "broaden my understanding" very fucking insulting. It's also not her place to lecture me. If she wants to recommend literature about counselling, I'll be happy to hear it, but anything else (gender issues, the war in Ukraine, what colours suit me best, how to raise my children) just isn't in her remit. And thirdly, what, is she suggesting I might also be a racist, because I've said that men can't be women? It feels like another example of unthinking people talking shit about something they haven't really thought about, and it's SO damaging.

Honestly, I know a lot of you have faced much bigger injustices around this issue, and I salute you. Any advice you can give me about how to respond (complain, if we're honest) would help me to take the heat out of it. Or maybe you think I should just leave it - happy to hear that too.

Thanks for reading.

When the OP is fully qualified and practicing, how will you know when she tells a transgender or gay or black client that she doesn't feel that she is the best counsellor for them whether she a) doesn't feel she's the best counsellor for them or b) is illegally discriminating against them?

You can’t tell in isolation, but only by joining up dots to show a pattern of rejection. As in, it will be pretty obvious over time to clinic management if she rejects every trans/gay/black patient that comes through her door. Her reasons will be rightly deduced to be tissue paper excuses to obscure illegal discrimination. The tutor was right to gently warn her about discrimination under the Equality Act because her comments are vaguely implying she might exclude any/all trans from practice merely because they are trans.

The protected characteristic in the Act is being interpreted by tribunals to include people who identify as non-binary, gender fluid or transitioning.

It's been interpreted by one tribunal in that way, and the person very clearly met the definition of an MTF "transsexual" under the protected characteristic of "gender reassignment" as defined in the EA. The "non binary" part is a red herring.

Bloody hell! Are you suggesting @Discovereads that a therapist who recognises their own bias, lack of training, understanding, past experiences etc, should be forced to work with clients who they don't want to work with, fear working with, have no expertise to work with?

Are you conflating legally held beliefs with illegal discrimination?

Are you saying that a transwoman would want to be seen by a therapist who fundamentally disagreed with the root cause of the issues being presented? What good would that do anyone?

A counsellor might be unable to usefully work with someone undergoing a process of gender reassignment because the process of gender reassignment assumes a belief in gender?

I suppose it's equivalent to a counsellor not being able to work with someone who is Catholic and wanting to discuss a decision to take up the cloth if said counsellor was an atheist?

I can see how a counsellor would be unable to offer much in the way of theological or 'spiritual' advice.

It is an interesting question.

@Pluvia
This above is a perfect example of a straw man argument. Felt you needed an example of one as you misused the term earlier.

@SamphirethePogoingStickerist
No, no I am not suggesting anything of the sort. It’s odd you think trans people only need counselling regarding gender reassignment issues. They are people you know and suffer from all the same life events that give rise to a need for counselling: depression, bereavement, stress, harassment, sexual assault, domestic abuse, etc. The OP would have no legal basis to withhold counselling to a trans person suffering from any of these issues as her GC beliefs would be irrelevant and no barrier to her offering help and guidance.

Why? Precisely why have you dismissed that? Why is it a strawman argument?

If transwoman wants to discuss issues relating to how she is perceived in the world, how to cope, whatver, how is she best served by a therapist whose own beliefs say "Well you can't because you are male"?

The best advice that therapist can give as a referral to another therapist whose own internal beliefs are not so incongruent.

Why would a female therapist who finds herself feeling uncomfortable with a prospective male client be forced to take them on as a client. They should refer them on. As should any male therapist with a female client who he feels uncomfortable with. As should any therapist with any client who causes any misgivings.

Therapy requires truth from both therapist and client. Truth and trust. It is a very intimate, human thing to undertake. Nobody, therapist or client, should undertake it with a person they do not feel safe and comfortable with, That's why referrals exist. That's why therapists undergo supervisory therapy. They need that autonomy and to feel safe using it.

Think about it from a human perspective rather than a legislative one!

Why do you need to respond back to your tutor.

The fact that the tutor only referenced widely discredited sources for further information, add to that the misinformation the tutor is displaying about what are protected characteristics.

Not all the students will have the resources or knowledge to understand that they can and should challenge poorly prepared and inaccurate statements from tutors.

Let me see, why would I think that?

Mmmm! Oh yes, work! Transwomen present themselves to one of the charitable organisations I volunteer for for many things, suicide ideation, sexual assault, harassment, depression, domestic abuse etc. ALL of which are linked to them being trans. All of which also require any external support offered, signposting to ther services, to be made with their being trans in mind.

Just as the rape crisis centre refuses entry to any and all transwomen, but refers them onto a different centre, some of our counsellors do not take of transwomen as clients, but refer them onto a different counsellor. I know this because I get anonymised data that measures the breadth and depth of the client base and issues presented.

I spend a good proportion of my daily round finding funding for all sorts of support for all kinds of people, even those I find personally abhorrent (like the counselling and housing support for male sex offenders on release). I do it because I don't have to meet them. I couldn't work with them I choose not to.

You may have chosen the wrong person to argue that point with!

Suggest you read the full thread. The tutor wasn’t wholly inaccurate.

@SamphirethePogoingStickerist
I couldn’t volunteer for a charity that is blatantly discriminating against transpeople in such a way.

Its not discrimination. Its acknowledging that some issues require specialist knowledge, and you can't specialise in everything. So people you cant help are referred elsewhere.

Neither could I.
That's blatant discrimination.

I doubt we would take you. You seem not to be able to think without your own bias and prejudice being paramount.

Nope. It is not.

How do I know? I also had to find the funding for legal advice. About 4 years ago our single sex services lost 40% of their funding directly because of the influence of gender ideology. We spent a lot of money checking, double checking and re-writing our policies. So much money wasted to add a single sentence, or word in some cases, to justify the bleeding obvious.

So now I will laugh at such wilful daftness. You are wrong.

Discovereads posts don't come across as prejudiced.
Especially where they say trans people can need help just like other people do, and nothing to do with them being trans.
Posters on the other hand saying they wouldn't take trans women at all '' because trans'' - now that's prejudice

So as well as compelled speech (you will call me my chosen pronouns or I'll make a complaint and get you fired), and compelled inclusion (if you don't allow me to participate in your women-only/ lesbian-only event I'll get your funding cancelled) we now have compelled therapy (you will talk to me for an hour a week, focussing on my issues and offering me unconditional positive regard and if you let your own feelings show I'll report you to for legal discrimination BACP).

I wonder who's there to protect the therapist?

Again you are fundamentally not getting it.
You can refer clients on because you cannot provide counselling for specific issues. As in you cannot counsel for gender dysphoria or gender identity. This is not uncommon and why counselling is categorised by mental health issue or disorder. You can also refer a specific client on because that specific person has a personality conflict with you which makes you uncomfortable/or there is no connection/ they can’t open up to you.

What you cannot do is refer on/refuse all male clients by saying “all men make me uncomfortable” or all trans clients because you are gender critical and “find it difficult to empathise”.

In short, you can refuse and refer on an individual case basis, but not a protected class basis.

Oh you know you are wrong.

Rape crisis centre - won't take any transwomen because we are a single sex service. We do refer on, even provide tea, biscuits and transport.

Counselling service does support transwomen - some individual counsellors do not. They refer on.

Interesting that you are only bothered about transwomen. What about the transmen? We bother about them too.

Well trans people are apart of the world now so if you want to help people you’re going to have to grow a pair and accept that you as a “professional” you will have to accept that it is your job to not discriminate. Maybe do some research first and you might be able to see past your own prejudices. It would be equally ridiculous if i as a doctor rejected all Christian patients as their god is their doctor. It’s just not logical.

You can also refer a specific client on because that specific person has a personality conflict with you which makes you uncomfortable/or there is no connection/ they can’t open up to you.

Yep, that is what I said

What you cannot do is refer on/refuse all male clients by saying “all men make me uncomfortable” or all trans clients because you are gender critical and “find it difficult to empathise”.

And that is pretty much the same, in the real world. The therapist, if they are good, will seek advice and support from their mentor but, fundamentally, no therapist needs put themselves in danger, physically, emotionally, by taking on or keeping a client.

Ethically they must refer, never abandon.

Let me see, this is easy to read and directly deals with the issues you raise.

the-orbit.net/brutereason/2016/03/15/therapists-refuse-work-clients-theyre-bigoted/

No, we do get it. We get it from a woman's point of view.

Well that’s a sexist comment as I am a woman as are other posters of similar mind to me.

Interesting that you are only bothered about transwomen.

Why '' interesting'' when it was other posters talking about trans women and that was what I was referring to in my posts?
Of course I'm bothered about trans men too.
''Interesting'' only now that they've been brought up and you've remembered exist too.
If a trans man came for help then, would they get turned away?

In short, you can refuse and refer on an individual case basis, but not a protected class basis.

And specifically to this... in most circumstances you would be right. Landlords and pets being a current example up for legislation.

However you are talking about 1-2-1 interaction and personal services, where all things about the interactions and individuals are taken into account. The therapist's belief that people cannot change sex is as protected as the trans person's belief that they have, for example. Common sense and a desire for efficacious treatment suggest that the two individuals must be equally invested in the situation with as few barriers between them as possible.

In short, for a therapist being self aware is of paramount importance. And judicious use of the referral system is essential.