Moderation - re the word "Cult"

[GCRich]

A cult is defined as "a person or thing that is popular or fashionable among a particular group or section of society." eg "the series has become a bit of a cult in the UK"

Can someone please tell me why we are not allowed to refer to the trans movement as a cult on this board?

Just call it a religion.

Because mumsnet is queasy about free speech

Yeah, we're not allowed to use certain words. The C word (not cunt) is one of them.

You can probably use them on other boards.

to be fair I think TRAs have been deleted for using the same word to refer to feminists.

I think you're being a bit disingenuous. That may be one definitions, but others include 'a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious' or 'A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.'. Its use is often pejorative.

However, if there are examples of people behaving like adherents of a cult, I don't think people should be banned from saying so.

Also 'grooming'. I find it astonishing that on a site created for parents, we can't use the words 'cult' and 'grooming' to describe what is going on. Perhaps MNHQ will explain in the deletion message when they delete this thread for using banned words.

It's just occurred to me that there are two definitions -

"a system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object. eg "the cult of St Olaf""

"a person or thing that is popular or fashionable among a particular group or section of society." eg "the series has become a bit of a cult in the UK"

Given that the second definition is categorically accurate and inoffensive when describing the current trans movement, it would appear that mumsnet moderators believe that when the behaviour of TRAs is associated with the word "cult", mumsnet readers will assume that the reference to the world cult must be the highly critical "scientology" meaning, and not the more innocent "fashion" meaning.

Why do mumsnet moderators have such an extremely low opinion of the trans "movement" that they assume that people will read "cult" as associating the trans movement with dangerous and insane extremists? It seems to me that moderating the word cult is deeply offensive to the trans activist community in a way that using the word is not!

That might be the dictionary definition but in the past I have heard of groups being investigated to decide if they are cults. I knew people in two of the organisations. Can someone expand on this? This was in England, and both were religious groups with residential settings, that attracted/ sought out vulnerable individuals. There were questions about how much control the group had over the lives, finances, and travel of its members; whether members could return after leaving.
I wouldn't use the word lightly. One of the detransitioners wrote a cateful essay examining how the trans community can be likened to a cult.

Cultish behaviour is actually very common within many social groups. It can be relatively harmless; it can be highly damaging. There are various resources that describe how cults often operate and things to look for.

cultinformation.org.uk/question_what-is-a-cult.html

Can someone please tell me why we are not allowed to refer to the trans movement as a cult on this board?

Would you be ok if people referred to those with GC beliefs as a cult? If not then surely you can see why refering to people who share a belief as a cult could be seen as offensive.

I suppose it comes back to "I don't identify as being in a cult so don't say that".

These days if you say things relating to what people do or don't identify as, it can be called "hate speech" if someone disagrees with you.

KylieKoKo

Would you be ok if people referred to those with GC beliefs as a cult? If not then surely you can see why refering to people who share a belief as a cult could be seen as offensive.

Sticking solely to the "fashion" definition for now....

Yes. But I would argue that the reason GC beliefs are not a cult is because they categorically are not "in fashion", though they are becoming more popular and well known.

If I were a TRA I might reject the association that trans is a "fashion", but that would be down to my biases, not as a result of a critical appraisal of the facts.

No-one likes being described negatively, but my view is that you either suck it up or you use facts, logic and reason to demonstrate why the accusation is unfair.

Ffs. Because gender Dysphoria is a condition that hugely adversely affects people. For those who GENUINELY have GD it's not something they choose to enter in to.

I'm GC but I appreciate there are genuine cases of people with gender dysphoria. I disagree with encroaching on woman's rights but I'm still sympathetic to their struggles. Its not a fucking cult and to say so is offensive.

Yes. But I would argue that the reason GC beliefs are not a cult is because they categorically are not "in fashion
Since when has being "in fashion" been a prerequisite of something being a cult? In fact many cults are built on an ultimate truth that only certain people can see.
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I was also astonished to have my use of the C word moderated by Mumsnet. I am new to this board so was not aware that its use was a problem. It seemed like a statement of fact to me.

There are similarities between the gender movement and cults. Here's an interesting article about it - ourduty.group/information/is-it-a-cult/

If someone wants to call being critical of gender a cult, I don't care even a little bit. They are welcome to their views just the same as I am.

Jehovah Witnesses are a cult but they're definitely not fashionable.

I have explained it to my 10 year old as being like a religion, a group of people with different beliefs which are based on " feelings" not science.
She has already come across some very confused and misguided children and I want her to regard their situations critically, without attacking the child themselves. I want her to be safe and trust what her eyes are telling her. It's already a confusing time for her.
But I do think it's a cult.

I thought Jehovahs were a recognised religion? Just a rather extreme one...

I just had a quick Google of jehovahs there, fascinating stuff. It's all a bit People's front of Judea vs Judean People's front 😅

Religions can be cults too

If the cap fits, wear it. The feminists on here are a long way from ticking the five boxes on this list:

cultinformation.org.uk/mobile/faqs/what-is-a-cult/

Oh come on, you know full well that few of the people wearing balaclavas or organising Twitter pile ons have GD. Most are not even "trans", save for possibly adopting "they/them" pronouns and dying their hair yellow.