Why do people dislike Germaine Greer?

[morescrummythanyummy]

I have a friend who is TWAW and "be kind". I am GC. We are both aware of the other's views from a couple of discussions and have sort of tacitly mutually decided to stay away from further debates on this topic. She reads her kids Harry Potter, so she isn't rabidly activist, but works for a charity that has been stonewalled and exists in a bit of an echo chamber in her day to day life (she would probably say the same about me in looking on mumsnet!). . However, my friend has voiced a quite profound dislike for GG a couple of times in passing on related/political topics, in a way that suggests that this is what "right thinking"'people should think. I don't want to press her on it, because I don't really want to enter into a debate or open a can of worms. She is a lovely person and I really value her friendship. Is GG despised by some because she is outspoken in being GC/terfy or for other reasons? Just quite helpful to know!!

[SidewaysOtter]

She’s strident, not afraid to voice an opinion (even if it’s an unpopular one) and she doesn’t give a flying fuck what anyone else thinks. I don’t agree with everything she says, and occasionally I do think she’s wrong (most notably her newspaper column where she said Ragwort isn’t a problem, when it bloody is ) but I still think she’s bloody awesome.

[TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross]

I was taught by her at university and she was terrifying to 19 year old me 😂

However, many people dislike her because she is uncompromising about saying what she believes rather than what the prevailing trend is to say. She’s outspoken and fierce in her opinions. I suspect your friend doesn’t like her because Greer is GC - Cardiff Uni tried to no-platform her after she said that post-op transwomen were still not women. She’s definitely not on the TWAW/#bekind side of the debate!

[AmaryllisNightAndDay]

My favourite controversial feminist is Andrea Dworkin. Also an inspiring speaker - I've seen her live and even her ranty stream of consciousness novels read aloud brilliantly. Culturally I have more things in common with Dworkin so I get Dworkin's POV better even when I totally disagree.

And every time the trans lobby demands something I just want to add and the women not be raped.

[WifeOfTiresias]

She says out loud the things that we as women may privately think but because of our conditioning to be "nice" can't say out loud. We may not agree with everything she says but thank God someone is prepared to speak out and not care who they offend. Men certainly don't worry about doing this.

She is spot on in her views on transgender and I'm thankful to her for speaking out at a time when no one else dared. As a transwidow I spent a long time being beaten down and told what I was allowed to think about the issue. Her speaking out saved my life. I fully agree with her that TW are not women and Caitlin Jenner is a self aggrandising arse!

[BraveBananaBadge]

This is an interesting thread. Like pps above I cooled on GG after recoiling from her "blokes in dresses" stance years ago as an idealistic young 'un. I have been meaning to revisit that - as blunt as she is, she was way ahead.

[TheGreatATuin]

@ResisterRex

I think it was the words on rape:

www.theguardian.com/books/2018/may/30/germaine-greer-calls-for-punishment-for-to-be-reduced

I also seem to recall thinking that some academics - prior to that - thought she recycled others' work/ideas. Something about de Beauvoir?

I was at this talk and her argument was a lot more complex than the article implies.
She was also talking about how few rapes end up being prosecuted and even fewer end in conviction, and was talking about ways we might be able to change that. I think the whole talk is on YouTube somewhere if anyone wants to hear the context.
It's clear that she is staunchly feminist and passionate about making the world better for women.
I disagree with her on some things but I get the strong impression that she loves to debate and will do so in good faith, something that is sorely lacking in so many arenas at the moment. She's one of my fantasy dinner guests 😁
I'm a huge fan.

[ElaineMarieBenes]

Well said @DifficultBloodyWoman

I respect and admire all difficult women

[SerotinaPickeler]

@DifficultBloodyWoman

Why is Germaine Greer a witch who ought to be burned?

• she is female
• she is intelligent
• she has her own opinions
• she can hold her own in a debate
• she is comfortable in her own skin
• she doesn’t do ‘be kind’

These are all reasons to burn a witch.
Or to admire and respect a person.

Your call.

Yes. She is a brilliant & fabulous & forthright woman. An original hero & worthy of respect by any measure.

[GenderAtheist]

Are you asking us why your friend dislikes GG @morescrummythanyummy ?

I can only assume it’s because Greer is the kind of feminist who puts women and children rights first and cares about the truth.

And your friend is a person who puts men’s rights first because she wants to be “ right thinking “ and popular.

That doesn’t sounds like a “ lovely person “ to me, but each to their own.

[SerotinaPickeler]

(Still tweeze out the chin hairs though)

[Branleuse]

I bloody love her

[Branleuse]

@Snowraingain

Years ago after some controversy my mum wrote her a letter of support. Just that nothing more - she simply wanted to give her support. But the reply she got back from Greer was horrible. Calling her a patronising idiot. It was just nasty.
So no one in my family is a fan.

Of course she did

[NecessaryScene]

I've always thought she's great, but I'm a bloke. Not sure if that should be counted against her.

[morescrummythanyummy]

Thanks very much! I suspected that my friend was probably trying to get a debate going (she does it in front of other friends, so she is maybe trying to work out which others are witches ). So my instincts in not engaging are correct!

Thanks for the links and discussion - GG was definitely ahead of her time on the trans debate!

[RufustheFloralmissingreindeer]

Its like everything nowadays

i can agree with some of what she said, disagree with others and appreciate her as a women who will stand up for women and say what she thinks

but that appears to be a no no for some people (obviously not on this thread) who believe you have to agree with someone 100%

[Abhannmor]

I read the Female Eunuch in 1970. It was a sobering read for a young man. Also I found her erudition quite scarey. GG is a rape victim and hates the framing of rape as a kind of death / murder. She thinks this makes recovery harder if anything and gives the rapist more power. Then she is a 6 foot tall , plain spoken Aussie. Some say she has Head Girl Syndrome and expects other feminists to defer to her. I really couldn't comment but I'd have no problem deferring to her authority on these subjects. She had a famous spat with another of my favourite writers , Suzanne Moore. But what's wrong with loving them both ?

[faggyhagger]

@DifficultBloodyWoman

Why is Germaine Greer a witch who ought to be burned?

• she is female
• she is intelligent
• she has her own opinions
• she can hold her own in a debate
• she is comfortable in her own skin
• she doesn’t do ‘be kind’

These are all reasons to burn a witch.
Or to admire and respect a person.

Your call.

Exactly. I love her.

[Peregrina]

I liked her when I read the Female Eunuch when it first came out. It chimed with so much of my experience. Like others, I still have that book on my shelves. Later on I think she wrote a book on Menopause - it did absolutely nothing for me and that book was given away pretty smartish. So I haven't followed her much since then. So as a feminist of her time she was great IMO.

If she's prepared to stick her neck out now and say that TW are not W, then good.

[Blutiles]

Is it because she replaced Mary Berry on the GBBO?

[AmaryllisNightAndDay]

I think the point was that it's not uniquely traumatic, akin to any incidence of violation, it's because the world is weird about female sexuality generally that it's regarded worse than say biting someone's ear off.

Yes that is her point but it's wishful thinking. And you've only got to consider male rape and men's and society's reaction to that to realise how poorly grounded her argument is.

GG is a rape victim and hates the framing of rape as a kind of death / murder. She thinks this makes recovery harder if anything and gives the rapist more power.

She has come to terms in her own way. But she is hardly the only victim of rape and other women don't have to feel the same way she does. If everyone framed it her way there'd be no rape crisis groups just a lot of people telling women to stop to fussing.

[AmaryllisNightAndDay]

I found "Daddy We Hardly Knew You" fascinating. And the last few pages about Greer's mother both shocking and illuminating.

Anyway, what it comes down to is that there a lot of different possible reasons for hating Germaine Greer. And for adoring her too. So you'll have to ask your friend

[WouldBeGood]

@DomesticatedZombie that interview with GG and Kirsty Wark! Fucking brilliant, thanks for sharing it.

[Clangyleg]

The epitome of Don’t be kind -be angry. Disliked by many because she is old angry and doesn’t mind what others think. Admired for her early stance on trans and support for women and well thought through feminist ideas. I still love her appearance in Town Bloody Hall. Don’t agree with everything she has said but she was important to many of us finding feminism.

[SnowWhitesSM]

I love her, I like outspoken, forthright don't give a fuck women.