Uterus transplants

[BluesandClues]

Whilst I detest the mirror; I read the article and wondered where all the uteruses will come from

www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/doctor-planning-risky-womb-transplant-26882914

This has the awful whiff of experiments by Josef Mengele about it.

It's a fantasy. These doctors are making money off the fantasies of those gullible enough to believe them. That whole article is written as if the author had not a single clue about female biology or the process of conception and pregnancy.

Oh dear. Does anyone recall Lili Elbe's life and death (immortalised in The Danish Girl starring Eddie Redmayne)?

If the owner of the uterus wants to “donate” it, it’s one thing but if there’s any way it can be bought or they can use assumed consent it’s far worse.

In all honesty I don’t think the it’s possible.

It's just fucking delusional. What's it's supposed to achieve?

This is cruel. To allow a male to believe this is possible.

are they planning on implanting (there is no ‘transplant’ here this is am implant) the entire endocrine system of a female too?

So fat the only way a male rat has been ‘successfully’ pregnant was through multiple full blood swaps from females, and then had a female pregnant rat attached to the male with the pregnant uterus so the female rat sustained two pregnant rats, one being herself, alive for the pregnancy.

Many female rats died in this experiment.

I am sure someone will come
along with more information on this.

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01885-0

oh. And the rats were paralyzed to be able to do this.

Do the doctors honestly think a uterus is all that is needed. Like a plug in and play bag like an accessory?

It's like biology is a myth

Then there is the ethical issue of experimenting on an embryo.

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01423-y

Currently, the old 14 day limit of life has been moved to 28 days. Then the 28 day embryo is destroyed. This was moved for stem cell research and that research has life saving potential.

What on earth would have to be the potential for experimentation of this type to be ethical?

How many human embryos and then foetuses would be compromised for this experiment to be ‘successful’?

Are people happy in the meantime to understand that this would be similar to growing a lamb in a bag? And what cognitive issues will there be with a human grown in a bag without the inter connectivity of all the other things a female body gives of itself to the foetus, and that is all now artificial or synthetic?

Do people supporting this experiment understand how many human foetuses will die to carry just one to term?

Do people supporting this experiment understand that when the specialist who successfully induced a male to lactate to breastfeed whatever the cocktail was that they produced, that specialist who was a transitioned male chose not to experiment on themselves to feed their own newborn infant because of the drug cocktail they used was unknown and they worried about the negative effects on their own child. Of course, they was happy some other child got that cocktail as the only milk to sustain them ….. just knew it could leave their own child with long term health issues - ethics huh?

Whenever these experiments come up, I say it won’t happen until an entire female reproductive system and female endocrine system can be implanted.

It may be able to happen….

It may require technology that will atomise the male body and reconstruct it be a female body.

Like in Star Trek.

Every time this comes up, I feel that it's more likely a baby could be gestated in an artificial uterus outside of any body than in one transplanted into a man. It takes more than a uterus to maintain a pregnancy in the first place, but the complications around any kind of transplant and the medication involved in simply ensuring the body doesn't reject it surely mean it couldn't work, never mind the enormous ethical barriers.

This is an interesting thread. I’ve just googled Lili Elbe. I must admit that one of my first thoughts was that, at 48, she was too old to get any use out of a uterus transplant. I don’t know any women who would start trying to have children at 48 (I know there probably are some, it’s just very rare).

It wouldn't ever get through ethics here in the UK. Sadly there are countries where this isn't true.

It takes an awful lot more from a biological woman than just the uterus to sustain a pregnancy and even then there can be complications.

I thought we had moved on from thinking that women's bodies were just a series of hooks?

Growing babies outside the womb may happen though (still ethically very dubious)

I don't like all this cruelty to rats, I kept them as pets.

My traditional cut and paste of what I wrote before about womb "transplants":

I'll write what I always write when this comes up. This business of uterine "transplants" into men appears to be about science but it is not. It's about getting the idea out there that men can give birth too, but not just yet, there are a few technical details to be sorted out first. So while we're waiting for the inevitable, let's get on with the social sciences side of things and accept that since men can give birth too (not yet, but soon, soon, it's bound to happen), then there are no real differences between men and women in terms of things that are material and significant, they're just bodies with an interchangable set of parts. The actual differences are surface ones like the chosen forms of appearance.

It is about trying to change how people think by assuming a medical horror is a run-of-the-mill thing just round the corner. It's Overton Window stuff, not science.

Can you imagine what might happen, when you hear of kidneys being removed forcefully abroad.

This is 1000% true, it’s been said many times before by highly qualified and respected specialists in the fields of fertility, gynaecology and haematology.

As RoseslnTheHospital said,
It's a fantasy. These doctors are making money off the fantasies of those gullible enough to believe them.

Its completely nonsense,
a uterus takes more than a blood supply to even exist.
it would be a significant medical advancement just to be able to implant one that can be sustained,
but to implant one that could then go on to hold a pregnancy, no, that’s sci-fi, futurist nonsense.
a male body is simply not designed to support it, it’s impossible.

i know because I had a ‘debate’ about this with a family friend who is trans a few months ago.
I was looking into sterilisation or a hysterectomy and their argument was it’s unfair how a woman can just choose to throw away her uterus when a trans person “would die for the chance to have one”.
they then told me they had read about how close it is to being a possibility and asked me to wait until I could donate it to a trans person rather than just “throwing it away”.
i tried to explain the above but had to research and produce actual evidence to get them to believe it isn’t possible.

That is a fantastic reply.

may I borrow it for when this topic inevitably comes up again?

There is an active study at the moment in Sweden where children have been born to women using transplanted wombs. I was reading about it just yesterday as it came up in a miscarriage group I'm in. The wombs were donated in all bar one instance by the woman's mother and in one case a godmother. The donated womb is then removed after the birth.
These are instances though I believe where the woman could not carry a child due a medical issue - ie being born without a womb, under developed womb, loss of womb due to cancer. I fully support it in these circumstances where it's come from a family member. Not a stranger and where it's due to a medical issue.

Yes naut. I expect we will have the usual posters popping up to tell us it ‘is’ just about to happen.

I remember not too long ago a thread where a poster assured us it was just a few years away. Well, maybe it is in a country that refuses to follow world ethics boards. But not pregnancies. Although , perhaps some posters are also content with pregnant women being paralyzed and connected to males to achieve this. Who knows?

We have had an assortment of those who did the ‘nah nah na na nah nah’ just wait, you women are just jealous, you will be shown how hateful you are. After explaining for the nth time that pregnancy isn’t just a baby in a bag they begin to understand they are being sold dreams that cannot come to fruition.

But I don’t see the trans community push back on this. Surely it is not in their interest to push this agenda. It is very harmful.

India already has a documented problem in that regard, specifically relating to hysterectomies.

The Indian women pushed into hysterectomies 2013 coverage of medical malpractice involving unnecessary hysterectomies in India

Why are Indian women having hysterectomies to avoid menstruation 2019 coverage of women left ill after having hysterectomies because periods interfered with work.

Feel free MagneticRubberDucks. For me the key point that it's sleight of hand to get people to think that there are no real differences between men's and women's bodies in terms of things that are material and significant, they're just bodies with an interchangable set of parts.

This is complete horse shit. Uterine transplants to men 🤣

Not only because of the huge ethical issues but do you have any idea how many immunosuppresents someone who has a transplant has to take - that's not compatible with a healthy pregnancy. And that's before you get onto the female endocrine system and how it's 100% necessary for a healthy, full term pregnancy.

It's all absolute nonsense 🙄