Uterus transplants

[BluesandClues]

Whilst I detest the mirror; I read the article and wondered where all the uteruses will come from

www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/doctor-planning-risky-womb-transplant-26882914

Ah so that's where the TRAs (esp to US ones) are going with this, @Helleofabore - to help them in their efforts to link GC women with right-wing evangelical fruitcakery, like that weird Montgomerie person on Twitter.

I think the culture war in the US encourages this sort of nutbaggery from the "left" - if the right are going to be "no abortions ever - foetuses are sacrosanct!", then the left feel they have to support "no restrictions on what you do with foetuses ever - it's your body!"

If they were going to attempt this you'd think they'd be better off experimenting with a healthy male rather than one who had already had quite significant surgeries and are taking multiple synthetic hormones. I mean these things must complicate matters significantly I would think.

It's all very black and white thinking with little capacity for nuance, and high drama.

Cutted up pear comes to mind a lot.

Does having a functioning uterus benefit my sex life?
No. No it doesn't. It's either irrelevant or a whopping great barrier in reality

Exactly. Perhaps the TW suggesting this would also like to have electric shocks applied to their internal organs to simulate period cramps and endometriosis and a sizeable amount of blood extracted from their body to get that wonderful womanly anaemic feeling every month.

People have children for all sorts of reasons, I don't think 'to benefit their sex life' is usually part of it.

If there is any possibility of my uterus being donated after my death for this, I'm coming off the organ donor list. I don't want children being created from my body after my death. It's like being forced to be party to child abandonment.

if the right are going to be "no abortions ever - foetuses are sacrosanct!", then the left feel they have to support "no restrictions on what you do with foetuses ever - it's your body!"

This.

[Merail] Mr Menno's recent video about Davey Wavey with Haskell (?) as a TM includes Twitter screenshots, iirc, of TM arguing that no surgery nor hormones should be necessary to be recognised as a TM. This one is about surgery.

I'm sure there are more about 'neither surgery nor hormones' which is the more extreme TM version of Veronica Ivy's position, to some extent. [/merail]

But, extending that, if it's sufficient for someone to assert that they are a TW without any medical or surgical intervention, then there may well be a cohort of entirely healthy male bodies to put themselves forward as clinical trial participants on the absolute understanding that they might or might not embark on medical or surgical interventions later.

No. I don't believe this. But, this is where our legal fictions and the compelled societal acceptance of them may lead us.

Of course, the 'abortion' theme has also been used by at least one or two posters to push the agenda of 'wait until transitioned males can have abortions too!'. Like it is some kind of tick list of womanhood.

This is just a repetition of what some prominent activists have been posting too. Such as Lavery.

I'm also concerned about my 'tissues' that I've donated to medical science 'for any purpose' being siphoned off for uses related to these Frankensteinian adventures.

I've always told the kids that I don't give a fuck what happens to me after I'm dead. I mean, I'll be dead, right? But I don't to be any part of propping up this macabre, unethical madness, even in death., because it encourages abuses in life.

Like it is some kind of tick list of womanhood.

It's odd isn't it because by the time any of this happens (if it does) TW will just have to joint the queue with every other Tom, Dick and Harry. Hardly the validating "female" experience they expect it to be.

@RoseslnTheHospital
”@Discovereads so, as I said, you don't have any clue as to what needs to be surmounted and how that might happen. You are assuming that unnamed "experts" will be able to experiment on animals sufficiently to work out how to achieve this in humans. The only animal experiment that I know of is the rat one, which is not evidence of issues being surmountable.”

No, I do have a clue. I even posted a 2019 study that goes through many of the physiological hurdles and addresses how to surmount them. I just didn’t list the names of all the studies and all the scientists in my response to you. Didn’t think I needed to as several studies and surveys have already been posted and linked in this thread about uterine transplants by myself and other posters. The information is also there for you to research.

I think too you didn’t understand what “theoretically surmountable” means it means that they have solutions that would probably in their expert medical opinion, but as it is all experimental and not yet been practiced, they haven’t actually proven they are surmountable.

@Artichokeleaves
”women should never be allowed to end a pregnancy because pro life, tiny human, omg the horror

but lets create a foetus specifically to experiment on and then destroy to enable this agenda.”

Truthfully though the first view is extreme right wing, the second is extreme left wing. You wouldn’t find a person simultaneously having both views because the first view is an extension of the belief that personhood begins at conception and so a fetus has rights and the second is an extension of the belief that personhood starts after birth- ie the a fetus just a bunch of cells like a tumor so I should be able to have an abortion up to birth view.

The fact they both exist is evidence of how polarised things have become on the political spectrum.

@Discovereads Nearly all science fiction is "“theoretically surmountable” given enough time and resources. Doesn't mean it's currently possible, practically possible, ethically possible, etc etc.

I have read the links you have posted, previously. I see nothing that would make me think this is possible in the short, medium or long term. The nearest anyone has come is that horrific rat experiment which "surmounts" the massive issues by attaching a female rat to the male rat for the duration of the pregnancy. Now, is that a male pregnancy, or an extension of a female pregnancy using a male body as 'overflow parking'?

@RoseslnTheHospital
”Nearly all science fiction is "“theoretically surmountable” given enough time and resources. Doesn't mean it's currently possible, practically possible, ethically possible, etc etc.”. Agreed.

“I see nothing that would make me think this is possible in the short, medium or long term.“ I do see many worrying signs that it will be technically possible in the near future and I also see many worrying signs that the groundwork is being done to argue that it is also ethically possible. I think other women also share my concerns.

A big concern I have is why are these scientists surveying MtF trans women and asking “do you want a uterus” as if demand for something somehow justifies that demand being met. They should be surveying we women and asking “would you be willing to donate your uterus?” “And if so under what circumstances”. The assumption that the existence of demand justified taking steps to meet it when it comes to taking from female bodies is honestly misogynistic. And I don’t use that word often.

Massive trigger warning:

I’m not sure that viable pregnancy is the end goal here. That results in real world repercussions and the responsibility of a child and very little in the way of attention and glamour once it becomes commonplace. We all know that parenthood doesn’t get you attention, sympathy or brownie points.

Surely the most important female experiences that can be gleaned from all this are the suffering - the fetishisation of periods and cramps etc we have already seen. To be able to suffer womanhood is the most female thing of all. The “breeding kink” can be satisfied with the “risk” of pregnancy, the thrill of pissing on a stick, the big cutesy announcement on instagram, the “look at me” baby shower. The sympathy for a miscarriage. The ‘belonging’ that comes from being able to say “it happened to me”. All of those things can be achieved to validate someone’s gender identity ideally without actually needing to carry a baby to full term.

Puts me in mind of this. Exceptionally strong stomach needed for this. grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/princess-mom?s=r

Oh god I remember that, @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g Absolutely sick fuckery that one.

I mean it would be just as productive to debate if you'd prefer fingers as toes or toes as fingers. It's physically not possible and completely unethical.

Feeding a delusion, that's all it is.

I wouldn’t be surprised that if transplanting a uterus from a human woman were banned, these scientists would start trying to grow human uteri in pigs. As they are experimenting with growing kidneys in pigs. What’s to stop them adding to that list of pig farmed organs if they manage it?

Every time I read anything about uterine implants to a male, the film Aliens 4 swims into view. Particularly the scene when Ripley finds all the less successful clones that were created before her, Ripley8. Experiments 1 through 6 are dead, 7 is alive and still being experimented on.

I had a very visceral reaction to that part of the film. As I have every time someone claims males will one day be able to carry a baby, because I automatically go to the amount of experimentation that will involve. (And of course fail, but with lots of 'collateral damage' along the way.)

Toes can be grafted on to replace missing fingers.

It would be an implant not a transplant.

‘I wonder under what circumstances would you and other posters agree to donation after death?’

Never. I’m pretty sure my womb wouldn’t be much use to anyone, but I’d like my female reproductive bits cremated with the rest of me when it happens.

‘I wonder under what circumstances would you and other posters agree to donation after death?’

Another vote for never. A child is not a right, and I worry about the long term health risks for the child - even where the recipient is female. We already know donor eggs result in riskier pregnancy and I don't see why it would be the same with a womb.

Any other part of me can be taken providing it's for the purposes of saving the life of another. But no one has ever died for lack of a uterus, or lack of a working one.