I got called bigoted and trans exclusionary...

[Mahanii]

...for the first time last night, in 2 separate conversations, by 2 really good friends. And it's really upset me. I thought they knew me well and accepted me as I am, as I accept them. That's all.

Slightly tangential but Andrew Doyle's piece on libel highlight just how meaningless so many terms are.

Today’s culture wars are largely being waged through the manipulation and misapplication of language. Many activists are explicit about their refusal to debate their ideas — for the simple reason they would collapse under scrutiny — and one of the ways this can be achieved is to destabilise shared definitions of words.

In their world, libel simply cannot exist, because the meaning of language has become a purely subjective matter.

For example, the term “racism” is generally understood to mean hatred or prejudice based on race, but for intersectional activists “racism” is an equation: prejudice plus power. Similarly, the term “fascism” traditionally connotes an authoritarian movement based on an extreme form of nationalism combined with claims of racial purity and a militaristic repression of dissent. Yet last week Labour MP Claudia Webbe claimed that the government’s decision to privatise Channel 4 was not a show of “freedom or independence” but “the seedbed of fascism”.

unherd.com/2022/04/when-libel-laws-are-needed/?1649653030161

The fact that your friends refused to discuss this with you is troubling and is illustrative of the hyperpolarisation around these issues. Ironically, on a societal level, Hannah Arendt describes the fact that alienating us from each other and creating large scale loneliness is a necessary precondition for the establishment of totalitarianism.

What prepares men for totalitarian domination in the non-totalitarian world is the fact that loneliness, once a borderline experience usually suffered in certain marginal social conditions like old age, has become an everyday experience …
– From The Origins of Totalitarianism

An essay discusses how ideology can be used to isolate individuals and Arendt's insight that

Totalitarianism destroys man’s ability to think, while turning each in his lonely isolation against all others

aeon.co/essays/for-hannah-arendt-totalitarianism-is-rooted-in-loneliness

Over time, people like your friends may well part from each other as ideologies tend to demand increasing levels of purity. I would hope that rather than attempting to resolve their cognitive dissonance (discarding a friend over an ideology they're not prepared to discuss) by doubling down, they accept the opportunity to reflect on their actions with you.

"she doesn't really understand that there are more than 2 sexes, so better we just drop it". Or something along those lines"

You do understand that there are NOT more than 2 sexes though, right?

I'm so sorry to hear it, OP. I've been in a similar situation. I've lost respect for a lot of people over this and it's been really hard.
As you said, its not about the disagreement. I've thought about this a lot. I think a lot of the hurt comes from realising they're putting hate in your heart that isn't there, and then condemning you for it.
I heard someone refer to JKR as 'evil' this week. Who uses that word for someone? And when combined with what she's actually said, its quite bewildering how easily a woman can be condemned.
For the first time in my life, I've understood how witch burning and mobs work. I've seen people denounce friends and accuse them of 'evil' and 'bigotry' and its all based on protection and baseless accusations.
It's revealed a very ugly side to a lot of people and that's been very painful.

*projection not protection. Thanks auto correct

I am dealing with the same with my DD, early 20s. She's in a creative field so surrounded by the ideology. She brought up the subject of puberty blockers the other day and announced that she can't see how using them can cause any harm as the cross sex hormones just take you through the puberty of the opposite sex!

She absolutely refused to believe that no human being EVER has been able to go through the puberty of the opposite sex. They just have permanently prepubescent bodies modified somewhat by the effects of cross sex hormones. No one knows the effects this has on brain development but it's not likely to be great.

We mostly agree to an uneasy truce on this and otherwise have a good relationship, but I live in constant dread of being cut off by her to appease her gender evangelist friends

Note modification to my usual posting name as the MN update locked me out of it!

It's sensible and factual. They are resorting to ad hominem attacks because you are in the right of the argument and they can't win on the facts

This.

Only way to deal with this is ' agree to disagree' and move on. Or push them on their views - that exposes the conceptual vacuum of what they say.

For the first time in my life, I've understood how witch burning and mobs work. I've seen people denounce friends and accuse them of 'evil' and 'bigotry' and its all based on protection and baseless accusations

And this. Sociologically and psychologically its fascinating. But also really, really depressing about what it reveals about human nature. The ugliness, the tribal willingness to condemn and ostracise others, the primacy of emotion and social belonging over reality and justice, and, of course, the misogyny. For movements like this to take hold they need to be based on a viewpoint wide held in society anyway, and in this case, its misogyny - deeply held by men and women.

If I called someone bigoted for stating a demonstrable fact, I hope that I would have the courage to pause and examine my motivation for doing so.

If any of my close friends felt the need to call me bigoted I hope I would have the courage to examine my views as we have never said anything like that to each other before.

I do examine my views on this all the time, and I examine the evidence, the logic and the arguments repeatedly. I don't see transactivists/allies doing that at all. That's because believing in gender ideology is like a faith - it doesn't rest on evidence and examining why they think what they think is not a place they generally want to go. Anyone who thinks someone is a bigot for stating fact should have the onus on them to explain why.

I have had a similar experience, though with acquaintances rather than good friends. The conversation came up organically and I naively thought I could just tell the truth without being judged. It makes you feel really shaken - you know your views aren't bigoted, but that's how you are somehow being interpreted. I live and work in a small community, and I'm sad to say that I would be likely to avoid the subject because of something a previous poster said:
If your friends are able to damage you in any way - for example as work colleagues - I’d be wary of continuing the conversation with them

I'd imagine lots of us are in situations like this - where it's just not worth speaking up, for your peace of mind in your workplace, community etc.

The problem is, they know they have herd opinion on their side, and that makes them bold.

YY. Most of them know deep down it's absurd, but it's easiest to go along with it and they can get advantages from bullying less gullible people.

Makes me think of the book “How to stop time” about a man who didn’t age do saw that each generation basically faces the same issues but in a different form. The gender ideologues are this century’s witch finders - insisting others chant mantras that aren’t true or face awful consequences if they refuse.

Can’t pretend I wasn’t extremely relieved when I met up with old Uni friends who all felt like I did.

I had the fake incredulity and “you don’t say that in public do you” from a close family member for the assertion that you can’t change sex and men should generally stay out of woman’s private spaces. But she is very high up in a right on Stonewalled organisation. She had no decent argument either I noticed 🙄 and even tried the “it’s like gay rights in the 80s” line.

Thanks @Phobiaphobic. It’s disturbing because I thought my friend was both tolerant and a critical thinker.

Ironically I’ve friends who are Catholic/pro-life and an ethical vegan, yet have never had issues being friends with me (a pro-choice meat-eater). Maybe this is because they are more secure in their views while I suspect my ex friend may feel deep down her views do not make sense, but she is willing to subordinate everything to solidarity and the “feelings” of her tribe.

TBF I think that poster was thinking in the voice of one of the OP's friends, not giving their own opinion.

I don't think you're bigoted or trans exclusionary. I fundamentally and severely disagree with your views, but that's life. You shouldn't have that with friends.

Or it could be that she's not friends with cows and pigs, but does know real people who could be hurt by your views.

does know real people who could be hurt by your views.
Ah, yes. Like the women who have been sexually assaulted in prison, been told they need 're-education' when seeking help at rape crisis centres, been assaulted at womens marches, thrown off dating apps for their sexual orientation, lost funding for refuges, been subjected to rape and death threats online, had to stand on pictures depicting penises at a vigil on domestic violence and on and on and on.
Women are real people. It's extraordinary that this needs to be pointed out.

Oh for goodness sake.

Does it take much pointing out that one can be affected by people they know and care about before people they read online? come on.

Wear that shit as a badge of honour girl.😄

Looks like you only consider women you know personally to be human (being generous, here) - and the rest of us are just support animals to be used by men in any way they wish. come on.

Does it take much pointing out that one can be affected by people they know and care about before people they read online?
Well this is exactly why the comments from my real friends bothered me.
In life I only know one trans person (friend of a friend) who I am pleasant with, we don't know each other well but we are nice to each other, and I don't care where they go to the toilet, because they are friendly, polite, and a decent person.
On the whole, I wouldn't like women's spaces to be open to anyone because I believe some men will use this to their advantage, like they do with everything else. I may well be wrong, if my singular example of a trans person is what I should be going by, rather than my multiple examples of men.

Go with your first instinct, is all I will say. Women have the right to feel safe in spaces where we are vulnerable.