I got called bigoted and trans exclusionary...

[Mahanii]

...for the first time last night, in 2 separate conversations, by 2 really good friends. And it's really upset me. I thought they knew me well and accepted me as I am, as I accept them. That's all.

How long have you known these friends? Do you usually share views on important matters? Do you trust their judgement? Have they criticised you before?

If any of my close friends felt the need to call me bigoted I hope I would have the courage to examine my views as we have never said anything like that to each other before.

You can't stumble into these conversations! It does seem to be a curiously loaded topic that goes from 0-bigot in seconds.
If it comes up talking to friends I try and let them lead but I think several of my friends seek me out to talk about this as a counter to the batshit they hear from others.
I don't try and convince anyone of anything but ask more questions to get them to explain to me. I did gently challenge a friend for putting up the 'rights aren't pie' meme and suggested that actually, sometimes rights are just like pie and there's only so much pie to go round. Cue mildly huffy response of that not being the point (except that is exactly the point!)

Calling a woman who has suffered some kind of attack by men a bigot/TERF for her saying she doesn't want me to in women’s spaces is to me a step too far in a friendship. They could be empathic and think "Well, OP suffered trauma that clouds her thinking, and she doesn't really understand that there are more than 2 sexes, so better we just drop it". Or something along those lines. (Or whatever similar relaying to your discussion). That would be a friendly, compassionate way to talk to a friend.

Name calling is something quite different.

Now, as their friend you can put it to the side and wait until they come around. Or you could decide that if that's how they care about your "lived experience" then that's not what you want in a friend. I do not think one choice is preferable. Both are equally deserved. Think about yourself and how you feel. You did nothing wrong though and you actually aren't wrong either! So don't worry about that part.

They've been captured. Tone deaf to any other opinion. You don't need these people in your life

This is a good question OP.
I have never discussed the topic with anyone other than my close famly, and we have lived experience which leads us to the position that is being called "gender critical".
I believe that these one to one conversations are going to be the thing that changes views. It is the echo chambers of social media thatgot us here, and we need the real life face to face discussion.

I lost patience with the TWAW crowd a long time ago. If any of my friends called me a bigot, I would respond with "you think I'm a bigot and I think you're a dick pandering handmaiden so where do we go from here?". Would probably be the end of the friendship but as I said, I've lost patience. At the very least, they are too gullible to have a critical thought about it and at the very worst, they are a danger to women and children by supporting this ideology.

I’d say something like “but I believe in basing my views and understanding on the evidence. I can’t just accept something there’s no evidence for, I’m not sure why you do. But if you can show me good evidence that men are women just because they say they are, of course I’ll change my mind.”

Then hopefully either they’ll prefer to back down, or they’ll go on an evidence hunt which might be enlightening.

I think I'd let them know you're upset, OP. Say what you've said here, that you don't care about having different views, but name calling is not acceptable in any relationship. They will either agree and apologise, or they'll double down. At least that will give you some clarity.

Name-calling is abuse. I wouldn't accept it from friends any more than I would from a partner. Stand up for yourself. I hope your friends come to their senses and apologise.

Welcome.
your friends have drunk the Kool Aid, and you should stay firm.

I think this is a good idea. You don't have to take this and they should be aware they've upset you.

@Blessex: "I lost a good friend over this too. She just ghosted me though."

I too lost one of my closest friends and was ghosted, late last year. Was accused of being transphobic. Am still upset about it now.

I too think you should not let them get away with calling you bigoted and other abusive terms. Anyone who considers this acceptable would no longer be my friend.

As the actual subject matter, it is clear they've swallowed the propaganda and are not open to persuasion at this point. So I would just let it rest and avoid the subject at this time. However, I feel the tide is slowly turning, and in due course they may see how wrong they were.

For the one who thinks there are more than two sexes, what is the third gamete? Because as we know expellers of small gametes fertilise large gametes which are inside a large gamete incubator. What is the role of this third gamete in reproduction?

For the second one, there is no hope really but maybe ask why the female toilets in Camden which were recently changed to mixed sex have been quickly changed back to single sex due to the behaviour of males towards females?

Buy it make yourself a badge and wear it, make a point if wearing it when you next see them, make a point of seeing them soon.

Grab some simple sentences from the many threads here and tell them both exactly how rude, blinkered and ridiculous they are being.

Then leave them to it.

All of this, except leaving them to it, can take place in your imagination if need be.

But they probably aren't the friends you thought they were.

💐

Oh jump on board.
Me too. Even though I have a nephew who is a transman and employ a transwoman.
My view as a fifty something woman, I have been fighting for women's rights my whole life. But saying the truth and scientific fact which is you can cut bits off and put bits on, you remain biologically the same as the day you were born. End of, simple as. And I don't agree with me or my daughters having to share toilets and changing rooms and hospital wards with men.

I accept I won’t be friendly with most people who believe in gender ideology. They’re too involved in their crusade.

This. My friends are more thoughtlessly and ignorantly woke and don't fully grasp what the consequences are for women and girls or safeguarding children, than TRA.

Courage to examine her views that there are two sexes? That's simple fact. Should she examine her views that water is wet too?

I disagree but can understand to an extent people having differing views on changing rooms for example but the OP has been called a bigot for stating a fact. There's no discussion possible because the other person is denying reality in order to fit an ideology. It's like arguing with a toddler who insists that the cat is purple, when it's not.

Sympathy. I was ghosted by a good friend and it hurts. We’d discussed the subject several times and she knew perfectly well I was not a bigot. In fact, we weren’t even that far apart. But then I think she was getting so much kick back from her own kids that she decided it was easier just to go with the programme.

At which point I think she became extremely hostile to anyone or anything likely to give her reasons to doubt her choice.

Since then I’ve seen on hers (and other “friends”) social media claims that all GC women are far right, being manipulated by the Daily Mail etc. I’ve also seen how willing they are to ostracise and cancel other people. If your friends are able to damage you in any way - for example as work colleagues - I’d be wary of continuing the conversation with them, OP. I do regularly think of contacting my friend and seeing whether we couldn’t agree to disagree. But the trouble is, I think she is invested in the idea that anyone who disagrees can only do so from a place of bigotry and hatred. This is the problem with a perspective which feels almost religious in its dogma, but won’t actually acknowledge that, and therefore sees no reason why it can’t impose that dogma on everyone.

Your friends are gripped by cult thinking. By going on the attack like that, they are trying to shut down their own cognitive dissonance. The problem is, they know they have herd opinion on their side, and that makes them bold. My advice would be to tell them they're rude and you expect an apology, and refuse to back down. Then never discuss it with them again. Their days are numbered anyway.

So sorry, @cocoapopfan That must really hurt.

I have friends with different views on this issue, a range of different views. Mostly we can discuss in a civil manner, being adults.

Those who have 'unfriended' me over it are ... not a loss.

Yes, I've pretty much peaked my whole family by doggedly refusing to back down.

DH used to try to shut me down on this (not by argument, just a rolly-eyed 'Oh, here you go again') but when a family member transitioned and I asked whether he really believed they had now changed sex, he said 'Of course not!' without even thinking about it.

It can be useful to find the point at which your views diverge from theirs. It's probably not as big a cleft as it seems.

@Oblomov22 sorry to hear about that. It does hurt. But in the end it is what it is. I am a biologist and a geneticist. Nobody will persuade me there are more than two sexes. All this DSD argument just shows they don’t understand biology frankly so I start losing respect. Then take it to women and girls safety and I will NEVER back down. That comes before men’s feelings every bloody second of everyday and women who don’t see that must have some kind of male protection privilege. I mean you wouldn’t see Emma Watson in an NHS hospital ward bed or a public toilet. And I doubt you would see any future daughters of hers there either. So she is blinkered. But yep it hurts that these women think they are the ‘kind’ ones.

Couldn't agree more Blessex.