How to respond to anti JKR teen DDs

[MmeMeursault]

It's happened - the usually very sensible and feminist teen DDs have uttered the "JKR is transphobic and so must you be if you're supporting her" line, which of course is bollocks in both respects, but I'm so very bloody tired and peri-menopausal I just can think straight to come out with a suitable response to nip this nonsense in the bud.

Please suggest some suitable responses....

Have you read her essay? If not, go and read and we'll discuss.
If yes, which bits are transphobic in your opinion, and we'll discuss.

Well, that's how I'd like to think I'd respond 😀

Ask her to show you the exact things that JKR has said that are transphobic. Not someone else's commentary but the actual text from JKR.

If you need help with your arguments how strong can your convictions be?

Dd16 and I know we disagree on this. We mostly avoid talking about it, but she knows my opinion. She'll come round, eventually. Probably. Ask them if they can point out to you anything that JKR's said which is actually transphobic. Point out some of the horrific hate and threats directed at her by TRAs and ask them if that's what 'being kind'looks like. Ime there's no 'nipping it in the bud' though- you just have to wait for them to grow out of it.

I would tell them it's important to know their own minds which means doing their own research rather than adopting the opinions of friends in order to fit in. Being right and being popular are often very different things. Ask them to read JKR's essay and tell you where the transphobia is.

www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

'Oh, how so?'

In v similar situation I said oh yes, I read about that too so I looked up her essay. It seemed okay to me. Have you seen it?
One thing I have read is that "nudging" rather than full on disagreement - starting from the position that I'm right and you're wrong - works better when arguing this kind of tribal position.

Avoid talking about it. I showed DD13 and as close to magic as I’ve ever seen she found examples she considered of transphobia in JKRs actual words.

This is the new religious dogma. Some people are struggling to question it in any way.

Honestly.. teenagers going against parents is nothing new.

I would respond with “ok “ and go on about my day. I’m sick of this teenager petulance about JKR when they don’t even know what it is she said. They just parrot back what their Wolfpack set of friends say and do.

Oh ffs, I think she's bloody right! You're male or you're female, deal with it.

Teach them critical thinking, to learn to not go along with the crowd.
To look up both sides of the argument and then come to a conclusion.
They will come to agree that she isn't transphobic.

Tell them you’ll be ready for a sensible discussion about this whenever they are, but at the first sign of them being unready for it (emotionally) you will stop discussing it.

Then focus on what/when/how/where questions.

What do they think sex means?
What do they think changing sex means?
What rights do they believe this procedure should confer?
When (at what point) should those rights be conferred?
What do they think gender means?
Where do they think gender is situated in the person’s biological system?

Tell him you made a mistake in the hospital and should have filled in boy on his birth cert.

You are delighted to finally have the big talk about how delighted you are to formally recognise your son.

If this is met with rejection, simply explain that it's your failing as a parent which prevents gim, your dear son, from being who he is rather than who you taught him to be.🙃

One thing I have read is that "nudging" rather than full on disagreement - starting from the position that I'm right and you're wrong - works better when arguing this kind of tribal position.

^ Yes, this too. However frustrating it is, you can't make them see reason.

Agree to disagree but keep it respectful. No name-calling.

I said something along the lines of ‘Don't you think that’s trivialising actual transphobia? Lots of woman are nervous of male people they don’t know. Especially if they’ve ever been physically attacked. It doesn’t mean they hate trans people.’

DS, to do him credit, went away and thought about it. DD still tends to fall back on ‘argh you don’t understand and it’s not that simple.’

I’ve also found shrugging and saying ’if transphobia just means knowing people can’t really change sex, most of us are transphobic. Oh well’ took the heat out.

Print out JKR's essay. Stick it up on the fridge, the wall, or put it where they can see it.
Ask what their classmates think - are they allowed to discuss the subject? (My dd says not at her school.)
Info about who profits from gender ideology might interest them and get them thinking.

Yeah don't print out the essay and stick it on the fridge so their friends. Some of the suggestions above are also hostile and antagonistic which won't open up a conversation and will confirm their belief that you're unreasonable

I agree with the nudging approach, and asking genuine questions in a neutral way to have a genuine conversation about it, and to show that you aren't all what they fear you are

Throughout time teenagers have held different views to their parents,
its part of the maturing and separating process.
It's up to you wether you wish to have a "don't disagree with the parents, they'll never listen" or teens that explore issues with you (even when they are wrong)

I'm sure many of us can remember ideological differences with our parents and how their responses shaped our relationship with them

Probably ignore it.
Just be there for her when she's innocently getting changed at the swimming pool and some big hairy naked bloke swinging his equipment around appears in front of her

Thanks all. Loving the suggestions. Like I said - very exhausted emotionally dealing with lots of other things atm so this is just one step too far for me to tackle in my usual robust way.

Have printed out the essay and offered it plus a highlighter and asked them to locate the offending transphobic parts.

Have also said of course that we are open to discuss any other current issues or parts of the essay which strike them as concerning, so I expect we'll be talking about rampant social misogyny pretty soon.

We printed the essay and then asked Dd to read in then we’d happily hear her views but they needed to be fully informed views. It’s really tough because she does get our views but her close friend is militant trans so Dd is torn. I mostly stick with being respectful of others views. It’s brought up lots of interesting conversations. I haven’t told Dd I was violently raped age 19 but I think I might at some point. It might help her understand my views but I’m also not sure she needs to know that.

Haven’t had this personally (yet) - my DC seem open-minded and on the fence about it - or maybe they just aren’t going there with me as they know my views. But in this situation I would say “I can’t see how what she’s said is transphobic, and I can’t see that there’s any evidence that men can be women or vice versa - but maybe you’re right and I don’t understand. Please explain it all to me and honestly if it makes sense maybe I’ll get it.”

Then let them explain, asking reasonable, rational questions and asking them to help you make sense of the inconsistencies, why it doesn’t apply to identifying as a different race or age, ask for evidence of murder of trans people etc etc. (And I would do this genuinely - because if it did make sense, there was real evidence and people could really change sex, I’d be happy to change my opinion, because I’m basing my views on science and reality.)

just keep asking and getting it all out on the table. If they won’t engage, then just say you don’t see why you, or they, should believe something without evidence or explanation.

I’d give her a print out of the essay and a highlighter pen and ask her to highlight the transphobia. It’d be interesting to see what she comes up with.

Sorry didn’t see you’d already done that! 😀

Had all this with SIL who said “TWAW” to which my response was “no, trans women are trans women” .

Apparently JKR has brought it all on herself…oh and I am a TERF.

Am pretty certain I am not, I don’t care how anyone identifies it let’s keep it real