ACAS promote pronoun inclusion

[OllyBJolly]

twitter.com/acasorguk/status/1517183238002954244

So encouraging to see that every single comment is pointing out the idiocy. I used to really respect ACAS for their impartial, expert advice. Gone downhill in recent years and this is the pits.

Yes I saw that tweet. I suspect it’s not quite the reaction they were expecting 🤣

ooh look - new emojis on the site 🎅👒🙆👭

Am I imagining things or have we actually reached a point of change on Twitter about these issues? Actual debate is taking place!

Well they got told.

There have been loads of suspensions on twitter over the past week or so - seems like more than usual.

But yes - I am seeing more fight back and more correctly sexing people/using given names.

They certainly did get told

Literally the only positive comment is from Sue Pascoe who says it's just like using Mr or Mrs or Ms. Who the hell puts Mrs or Ms in their email signature any more?

I like the comment about under-represented groups because it's a term so often rolled out (by people with no actual intentions of helping those groups!) to stop questions:

"Are there any other under-represented groups you'd like include? Climate-change doubters? Domestic abusers? Marmite lovers?"

At the more serious end, this is a good reply too:

"No it doesn't help include anyone, it makes people complicit in a lie and can destroy working relationships."

It does destroy workplaces. And it's not even a good idea to begin with.

I don't use twitter so can't comment but I have noticed a definite change in the general discourse. It now seems possible to say I don't agree and not fear being labeled a bigot. Even guys I know who normally wouldn't have an interest are talking about the unfairness in relation to sports. When I told one of them about the whole rape crisis centre outrage, he couldn't believe it. He assumed that that could never happen.

If I needed advice about my employment rights - let's say I was being compelled to declare my pronouns - that tweet does not exactly give me confidence in their impartiality.

Arse. Handed. Plate. 😂

Conciliation service supports extreme and oppressive ideology. They're supposed to be balanced and independent. Conciliatory. Obviously only to one small group.

'Thanks for everyone’s comments, we can see there are some very strong opinions on this issue.' 😂

Some people seem to be confused about why they say put pronouns thinking it is to do with gender neutral names!

Name changed for this, but many of the people within the organisation recognise the potential impact on women's rights from confusing sex and gender and are trying to get a more considered approach. There are also some hardcore TRA who dominate discussion at the moment and it is hard to get a sensible and practical discussion going.

Please do keep up the feedback it will help influence things internally.

Wooden, that is great to hear. I'd be very happy to write to ACAS if it was helpful to do so - we use ACAS guidelines to base most of our HR policy on. If you were able to give an indication of where best to send a letter that would be brilliant - feel free to pm.

CEO is Susan Clews and Chair is Clare Chapman

Address is:

8th Floor
Windsor House
50 Victoria Street
Westminster
London
SW1H 0TL

Thanks, Wooden, that's great. I will put something together.

Great comments on there.

No thank you - always my favourite.

I've complained to ACAS, easy to do via their website.

The Legal Feminist tweeted about this, saying that the demand for pronouns in emails etc. makes gender critical employees feel excluded and frightened. She had a dreadful pile-on from hundreds of people stating that bigots should feel frightened and excluded, that it's just politeness to state your pronouns because some names cannot be figured out etc etc.

I think the Legal Feminist tried to use the trans activist language back at them, but that does not work.

Not sure what works, but this is why the new trend bothers me: Pronouns are demanded for two reasons:

First, so that trans women and trans men can tell people what their gender is and nobody in the world will then misgender them.

Second, so that non-binary identifying people can tell other that they use the singular 'they' or some neo-pronoun instead of the sex-based ones.

But what actually happens is this:

Most people (if they think about this at all) think that they are asked to state their biological sex in the letterheads. But that is NOT what is happening (and even if it was it would be bad for women given stereotype threat). Because the enbies are not giving their biological sex, then logically is nobody else!

We are all assumed to be giving our gender identities, even if we don't have those. And this means that we are assumed to be agreeing with the new identity-based definitions of men and women and the sexist crap that replaces biological sex in those definitions.

Did anyone else complain and get a response from ACAS? I got this today:

*We are sorry to hear that you have been disappointed by our recent tweet.
'Simple adjustments, such as including your pronouns in your email signature,
can go a long way toward creating a more open and inclusive workplace'
This tweet was part of our ongoing comms agenda to raise awareness with
employers and employees across the UK how simple things can create inclusive
workplaces. On the same day we also tweeted ‘Workplaces with a diverse
workforce have been shown to be more productive and happier’, sharing links
to our general advice on ED&I. Plus we had tweeted about maternity rights and
also race equality during the same week.
The purpose behind our tweet was to relay that using pronouns can help to
include under-represented groups at work that greatly appreciate the use of pronouns.
At Acas we believe that including pronouns is a simple and practical action that brings an immediate clarity and inclusivity benefit for a wide range of people where their name or the names of others cannot be readily or correctly
associated with gender. This includes ethnic minority, LGBTI+, and neurodivergent colleagues and customers. It is no longer customary to use gendered titles such as ‘Mrs’, ‘Miss’ ‘Ms’ or ‘Mr’ in either written or spoken English language. Whilst this has removed an element of embedded misogyny, it also means there are fewer cues to help us know which pronouns to use when addressing new contacts.
In addition, the introduction of hybrid working patterns means we are increasingly making new contacts remotely rather than in person. Knowing someone’s pronouns in advance reduces anxiety when it comes to meeting or
addressing them for the first time. It avoids having to make assumptions based on name, voice or appearance which, if incorrect, might cause embarrassment or offence. Adding personal pronouns is a measure that can help us all feel more confident of addressing each other appropriately *

Yeah no, that's not what pronouns is about. Are they being deliberately obtuse, or do they really think declaring pronouns is to be more inclusive to ethnic minorities or ND people? I'm tired of all the doubling down, why can't organisations ever say yep, fair point, see what you mean, we didn't think it through? They're like a kid covered in chocolate insisting they didn't eat the chocolate, tiresome.

"It is no longer customary to use gendered titles such as Mrs , Mr [...] in either written or spoken English"??

Since when? This is utter bollocks. Or do they just mean they no longer use titles at Acas?

If the latter, what tortured logic - they've got rid of titles and the "embedded misogyny" contained therein, but then belatedly realised they've lost a useful way to politely address or refer to someone, so they're collecting gendered pronouns which - unlike titles - are magically free of embedded misogyny. Hurrah, great save! In no way a fatuous waste of everyone's time and goodwill!

I plan to say "No thank you" when asked for my pronouns, but if pushed, I might now consider submitting "Mrs Surname"... (Or perhaps "Lady Surname"; after all, we had a poster a few weeks ago telling us that gender identity was as innate as class identity, so perhaps I'm a true aristocrat in a lower middle-class body.)

Nothjngcomestonothing

What an awful load of waffle that response was. If they can't answer in one paragraph and turn out that drivel then I'd be worried about their other policies.

And then you pretend you're not acting out of pure malice towards trans people.

It is no longer customary to use gendered titles such as ‘Mrs’, ‘Miss’ ‘Ms’ or ‘Mr’ in either written or spoken English language. Whilst this has removed an element of embedded misogyny, it also means there are fewer cues to help us know which pronouns to use when addressing new contacts.

..... So let's just put that embedded misogyny back in again

Can they not see that's what they're saying?🙄