MP for Caerphilly (Labour) - dreadful answer

[tabbycatstripy]

When asked on Twitter, ‘What is a woman?’

“I’ve done casework for trans people who’ve faced incredible challenges in their lives. They deserve much better than trite questions like this. Life is complex. Deal with it.”

Do they really think condescending to women like this is going to work? “Trite”? “Life is complex”?

Detecting sex can be more complex than looking at the external body. We know people with DSDs exist. They are all male or female. There is no third or fourth sex.

But no, in this situation, life is not “complex”. Women exist, Hefin David. We are not males. Deal with it.

'life is complex' 'it is a complex problem'....

Etc....

Hear this a lot, then why isn't there appetite for a range of complex solutions? Because the current solution isn't very complex, is it?

Treating anyone who claims to be a woman as if they actually are exactly the same as a woman with no distinction, to the point where the word 'wonan' cannot even be defined any more is not helping anyone.

‘Hear this a lot, then why isn't there appetite for a range of complex solutions? Because the current solution isn't very complex, is it?’

Well it’s not complex, that’s all. It’s just the interests of one small group being placed above the interests of a larger group.

TWAW == “ it’s so complex my brain fell out and I can’t deal with it so please go away”

I know - why are people electing people who find these things so ‘complex’.

There should be classes for this sort of thing. They could begin with “rainy” and “sunny”.

Appalling answer from your labour candidate. So you ask about women and they talk about trans! So ignorant, wouldn't trust them with safeguarding. I would ask back are they saying transgender people have DSD, because we know that is not true and that they are conflating two separate issues.

Deal with it? What's is he on the set of eastenders?

I would have said yes yes very good now what is a woman?

Or pardon you I think you misunderstood the question I was asking about women

I’d ask him to explain. Where exactly is the complexity in this? What am I misunderstanding and can he help me? I’m just a poor woman and my lady brain struggles with all this complexity.

You have to remember that Philippa Marsden is the current leader of the Labour led council in Caerphilly and her trans woman son (Hero Marsden) is campaigning for a seat as a local councillor. Not all Labour candidates are towing the party line.

Meant to add recent social media picture…

If the person with penis (or vulva) can't answer what a woman is then the person with penis (or vulva) can't vote on legislation dealing with sex based issues.

When any issue involves people there will be sex based issues ( directly or indirectly )

If person with penis (or vulva) can't vote on sex based issues then why would anybody want to elect that person with penis (or vulva).

At least the ones why come out with woman means some females and some males put their cards on the table. These candidates are going to be honest about why they choose to take that approach.

He's response is telling, not just the content but the dismissal.

The question was about women what word was not used? What group was dismissed as trite?

Life is complex that's why the answer has to be complex and nuanced if a politician chooses to add males to the electoral class called "women".

Deal with it comes in a looser the same race as trust and throw.

My local MP blocked me on Twitter for asking this.

If transgender people face challenges why aren't these clear and resolved?
For example, if transgender men (TW) feel uncomfortable using male loos it says more about men who do not accept non-conforming men than being an issue women are causing.

The MPs should work with men to welcome all men into their facilities, to include those who have dismorphia and those who just want to wear a dress occasionally.

They never say what the challenges are though as they don't want fair solutions.

This is my area. The problem is a duck with a red rosette on would win here 🤷‍♀️

'Complex' is code for I know I'll look like a twat if can't define women, but I'm too scared to. So I'm having to say it's too complicated.

An insulting answer.
Ask about women, answers about trans.
That wasn't the question.

All these old Labour blokes are hopeless. David, Drakeford, all the other relics. They see a skirt and that's all they need to know. Lipstick, skirt, heels — you're a woman. I presume they assume I'm a man because I don't wear a 'woman' outfit.

Maybe we should start with what's a man ? , see how they do with that question then move on to the more complex question.

I wouldn’t mind someone saying, “Excuse me, I find that reductive”, if they went on to explain what was reductive about it.

This line of “it’s complex” just makes it sound like you think voters are idiots.

Can you ask Mumsnet to amend your title - Hefin isn't the MP for Caerphilly, that is Wayne David, Hefin is the member of the Senedd.

Apart from that, this is typical of his attitude to constituents who disagree with him about anything, insult, dismiss and if on Twitter, block.

He can be an amazing champion of the local area, but can also be very condescending and rude if you do not accept his outlook. He blocked me on Twitter ages ago over a discussion on Welsh independence ages, so I haven't had to endure his witterings for a long time 😂

You know, I can actually understand politicians getting annoyed at this question. The intention is to get them to 'declare their side'. Whilst that was helpful whilst politicians were burying their heads in the sand, perhaps it would be more useful to ask them:

Where do you see conflicts between:
a) single sex spaces and services : the needs and desires of women vs transwomen
b) trans identified minors : personal autonomy vs adult/medical responsibility
c) the line between freedom of belief and harassment due to any of the 9 protected characteristics (including opposing beliefs)

How do you intend to resolve these conflicts where they are relevant to your work: both as a local MP and as part of the legislature which creates our laws?

I believe that defining laws and enforcing practice which will satisfy the conflicting needs and beliefs of different groups is the only complexity in this situation (DSDs really are a red herring) - and that's exactly your job as an MP.

(I'd also add this in answer to the message from your MP above, since I think he was pretty rude):
I don't consider 'deal with it' to be a sufficient answer to this complexity. It suggests that you don't consider my needs (as a woman and a mother) to be important or relevant. Could you please clarify your position?

‘You know, I can actually understand politicians getting annoyed at this question. The intention is to get them to 'declare their side.’

But that’s what we ask politicians to do. How else are we meant to ascertain whether we agree with them sufficiently to let them make decisions for us?

And isn’t it useful that we can see when they respond to simple questions in ways that are irritable and condescending, what sort of person we’re dealing with?

MaggieMGill - thanks, have done.

I don't really care if this question annoys MP's. That's kind of the point. Define what a woman is. Not what she isn't and not in a way that you shoehorn in men.
You can't sit on the fence on this issue.

It's a very simple question. And if a politician believes that someone with a male body can be a woman, why not say so? They just need to say something like "A woman is someone whose inner sense of gender identity is female, regardless of whether they have a male or female body." That is, after all, what subscribing to trans ideology means.

So why are they evading saying it? Because they don't want to come off the fence? Or because they recognise that it is complete nonsense?

Agreed that clues about an MP's beliefs and character are both essential. A rude, condescending response like this would definitely make me vote for someone different!

But it feels a bit compelled. Choose your catechism: 'TWAW' or 'Human Adult Female'.

I want an MP who is thinking about and engaged in the subject, since I think it's really important. I don't want them to be a gender ideologist. I want them to thoughtfully take the needs of all groups in society into account and be brave enough to withstand activists and lobbyists (I have high expectations! 😄). But they don't need to have exactly the same opinions as me. My MP (Angela Richardson for Guildford) has said she's fully supportive of the GRA whereas I think it should be abolished. But she's clearly thinking for herself, and recently asked about the care of trans kids in parliament. I don't need a parroted mantra from her, but I'd love to hear her detailed position on the questions I had above.