MP for Caerphilly (Labour) - dreadful answer

[tabbycatstripy]

When asked on Twitter, ‘What is a woman?’

“I’ve done casework for trans people who’ve faced incredible challenges in their lives. They deserve much better than trite questions like this. Life is complex. Deal with it.”

Do they really think condescending to women like this is going to work? “Trite”? “Life is complex”?

Detecting sex can be more complex than looking at the external body. We know people with DSDs exist. They are all male or female. There is no third or fourth sex.

But no, in this situation, life is not “complex”. Women exist, Hefin David. We are not males. Deal with it.

‘But it feels a bit compelled. Choose your catechism: 'TWAW' or 'Human Adult Female'.’

It really is zero sum. You either think they’re women, or you think they (or some of them) are people who are not women, who would like to be treated as women. You can’t sit on both sides of that particular fence.

That doesn’t mean you can’t give a compassionate answer. But if you think some males are women, we as voters deserve to know that you do.

"Trite"

Poor love, we seem to be boring him. Live is indeed complex, biological sex not so much.

I wonder if it's ever occured to him that if he could give a rational answer people would stop asking the question.

We cannot discuss solutions to competing rights if one side insists the conversation must start with a lie.

You expected a caring considerate intelligent answer from a politician ?

Fair point.

Indeed, if they cannot say what they supposedly believe then surely it means they dont believe it, or they dont want to say it knowing they will lose votes.

But there are still some people out there that have no idea of what's happening and would vote for them anyway if they used the be kind argument. And some would wonder why the fuck a MP was making chopped liver out of stating what a woman is. Then I suppose they might go looking to see what the hell was going on.
But this way of not even answering will send many people looking to see what is going on.
Hoping this year brings the whole shitshow to an end once and for all.
I've been saying this the last 10 years, but it's looking more likely this year than any other year.

Good questions JustWaking.

It's quite revealing isn't it? These people get away with this because most of the population don't know their views and don't know enough about women's rights right now. In a way, it's quite good that his response has been captured on Twitter so we can all remember.

I asked my labour councillor candidate the same question and was told that the question was a poor choice so they wouldn't answer it.

Glenthebattleostrich

The more they behave like they get to decide what voters are allowed to know about their intentions before elections, the fewer votes they will get.

Better than mine who said it's not his area of expertise

Not his area of expertise?

That's an "area of expertise", a man knowing what a woman is?

How has the human race survived this long, one wonders.

Smacks of Harry Enfields Women know your limits sketch!

www.google.com/search?q=harry+enfield+women.know+your+place&oq=harry+enfield+women.know+your+place&aqs=chrome..69i57.14612j0j7&client=ms-android-samsung-ga-rev1&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:25253bee,vid:LS37SNYjg8w,st:0

‘Better than mine who said it's not his area of expertise’

Then laws aren’t his area of expertise because many of the laws he wants to pass/oppose will have considerations that relate to protected characteristics.

The existence of people who cannot be easily categorised as male or female, because they have DSDs, does not mean that they are not one or other of the two sexes. Nor does it mean that any male or female can declare that they are the opposite sex and make it so. Not complex. No nuance required.

Do people who think of themselves as trans have a DSD that makes them really the opposite sex? No. DSDs are totally irrelevant and activsts who use them as human shields should be ashamed of themselves and should, to use their own terms, 'do better'.

OP perhaps it explains why Labour are losing 2-0 in the female leaders board.

It’s difficult though also because of the existence of the GRA.

It’s not possible to answer truthfully without highlighting what a shambles the GRA is and how it’s that piece of legislation which has resulted in male bodied people locked up with females in women’s prisons.

The truthful answer is woman means adult human female but legally we recognise that men with a GRC are also legally classed as women and those male born people may retain their penis.

I agree Maggie. Hefin has been supportive of the community, but over recent years has been rubbing alongside a young, male, Labour activist (momentum bot) who is very vocal online and has been shouting TE*F for years. I imagine this has given him a bit of an ego boost that he has someone who looks up to him and has started repeating the same nonsense to keep up with the kids.

I would also imagine that he feels the pressure to conform to word salad as he has been campaigning with candidate Hero Marsden this week who is a TW. Hero is the child of the elected leader of Caerphilly CBC.

I can just imagine how he would get turfed out so fast if he had answered factually and truthfully.

Exactly. Oh dear, poor MPs being asked questions that expose the zero thought they have given to the issue before jumping on the Stonewall bandwagon.

Asking complex questions about single sex spaces will not cut through with the public like seeing an MP struggling to answer a question that a 3 year old finds easy.

I got a patronising, dismissive and annoying response when I emailed my constituency Labour Party. It implied (quoting Starmer) that asking such questions was being deliberately orchestrated in order to cause community disruption. They were condescending enough to “hope this helps”.. I told them, no.

The question is of poor choice.

That is an odd construction of words.

I would use a poor choice
I would read that as "of poor taste".

It's not difficult to explain what you just outlined.

The GRA is not the problem as males without GRC were placed in womens prisons. The GRA makes it more complex if a male has a GRC but the current system has some checks and balances. If the GRA was changed to the "Irish" model it would be an apply and automatically get a GRC.

What is difficult is that the politicians then has to take a position on how far should the legal framework go in treating a male as a female and a female as a male.

Ask a politician should a female with a GRC be placed in the general population of the Mens Prison. In Ireland the State would have no legal option but to follow the legislation and to place a female in the mens. The GRC means they have to be treated in law as men/males.
In the uk a female would have 2 PC and would be held in a womens prison.

The no debate is I would have to choose what is best for society as a whole at the expense of the individual or opt for the individual at the expense of society.
We elect politicians to act for the benefit of society as a whole and view for the individual as to be for corruption and disruption.

But it’s also easy (and honest) to say (if this is what you think): “A man is an adult human male and a woman is an adult human female. That is the reality, and while there is also the possibility of changing your legal sex, it doesn’t alter biological sex. Separately, people can modify aspects of their physical sex - they might feel happier if they take cross-sex hormones or have surgeries. While this is perfectly legal, and for some people may result in greater contentment, it also does not change biological sex. We should respect adults in their choice to transition. There are, rightly, laws in place to prevent unnecessary discriminatory practices by institutions against people who transition. There are, also correctly, laws that protect those who do not believe that people can literally change sex. Private citizens in their private lives are not compelled to believe that the GRA can change a person’s actual sex, nor can they be compelled, in terms of their own interactions with institutions, to say they do.”

It’s not that hard.

@tabbycatstripy I actually bumped into my conservative candidate today while walking the dog and showed her the messages. She was appalled because 'no matter what your ambitions, leanings or opinions you don't get to choose people's questions'. and yes thats a quote from her. Off the record ahe muttered about bloody kids not understanding how life works!! She's an older lady who volunteered on the community before becoming a councillor and she only stood because she wanted to so something about a couple of local issues!

In the local council elections yesterday, Phillipa Marsden, erstwhile Caerphilly Council leader, lost her seat. She got 213 votes, her fellow Labour candidate got 182. The winners, two independent candidates, got 1,162 and 1,150 votes.

Marsden junior, Hero, came last, getting 482 votes, the other Labour candidate getting 738. The winners in that ward, three independents, got 1,877, 1,695 and 1,634 votes.

Deal with it. Well, that's you told you uppity little madam.😁
What a total bellend he is.