Teachers must tell parents if their child comes out as transgender, says Nadhim Zahawi

[rogdmum]

I know we’re not allowed to post links to archive ph now, but there’s a good article in the Telegraph about Zahawi’s comments yesterday:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/20/teachers-must-tell-parents-child-comes-transgender-says-nadhim/

Key point is that guidelines are being drawn up (which was already known, but appeared to focus on toilets, sports etc and not social transition) and that:

”Nadim Zahawi, the Education Secretary, has said that schools have a “duty” to inform parents if their child identifies as transgender as he said his department was drawing up guidelines to help teachers.”

”He said: “Parents have to be front and centre of this. And that is my message to the front line is to say: you have to involve parents in this. You have a duty to safeguard those children and parents are very much part of that”.

Well I assume with school pupils we are talking about 4 to 18 year olds. Whether it is primary or secondary I can't see what positive outcome there is to a teacher reacting to the child saying they are trans, the less fuss the better. Some kids like to shock as an example one of my GC is going through a phase of saying controversial things about my religion. I'm a Catholic and he tries to wind me up, some of what he says is actually offensive but I'm not going to let him know that on the other hand I have another GC who is very interested in philosophy and we often talk about different beliefs and faiths. You do what is appropriate.

If a child turns to a teacher for help or support that might be different depending on the child's issues.

Well I assume with school pupils we are talking about 4 to 18 year olds. Whether it is primary or secondary I can't see what positive outcome there is to a teacher reacting to the child saying they are trans, the less fuss the better.

Maybe.

But as I said .... this is not a real snapshot of what is happening. Again, teachers are regularly posting that they are having to use new names and pronouns in class etc. Not just my borough. Teachers from schools across the UK.

That is why this guidance that Zahawi is saying is coming, is very necessary. AND it needs to take into account the Cass interim report or the final report which I am sure will simply continue to state that social transitioning is not a neutral act and schools should keep this in mind.

They aren't all the same issue. You can tell or not tell parents regardless of using new names and pronouns. Telling parents can be an added pressure, I think teachers who know the child and something about the family can probably judge that better than Zahawi can.

So maybe he should be saying teachers shouldn't have to use new names and pronouns if that is the issue and let teachers judge how appropriate/safe it is to disclose this to parents.

‘Telling parents can be an added pressure, I think teachers who know the child and something about the family can probably judge that better than Zahawi can.’

And the parents can judge it better than the teachers can. The parents have parental responsibility, not the school.

I assume you would treat announcing on face book new names etc and backing that child into a corner with no way if coming back equally abusive ?

Love bombing a child this way isn't good either surely?

Or is it OK because its " supportive" ?

Do you view using a child this way as abusive also ?

gender surveillance state - bwahahaha.

This seems like good news, OP.

I expect this will be a huge relief for teachers, as well as parents, as there have been concerns raised by teachers about what consequences there might be withholding information from parents.

Will this apply to Scotland, too?

This has all gone a bit bonkers.

This is all the same issue ancientgran . Changing names/pronouns/affirming a child as the opposite sex are all part of social transition. The issue of social transition being supported by schools behind parents’ backs (and in our case, against clinical advice) is what Zahawi is addressing.

I get the impression you are unaware of what is happening in (too) many schools.

‘Can you guarantee that every parent will say they love and support them, do you think if a child tells a teacher they will be in danger if their parents find out they should be listened to?’

I am a teacher and can tell you exactly what should happen. The child should always be listened to. The school DSL should be made aware that there is a reported risk of violence to the child. That should be reported to SS. SS should engage with the school and advise, and if they deem it necessary intervene to communicate the issue to the family and protect the child from violence. If that means the child can’t live in their home because they have abusive parents, alternative accommodation should be found.

Absolutely none of that involves teachers promising children they can keep secrets. It is unprofessional, wrong, and (in the case of a child having gender dysphoria, which is a medical condition) neglectful.

As for prison - I mean, they're prisons. I imagine everybody in them doesn't get amazing treatment. This almost reads like "women in prison are criminals so it doesn't matter if they're abused"

I'm not trying to minimise any potential weirdness that could come from mixed sex prisons, but what are the big concerns? Sexual assault? Because I'm pretty sure that women sexually assault women in prison anyway (a lot more cis women than trans women), just like male-on-male sex abuse in prisons.
Potential weirdness? Weirdness? Did you really just refer to sexual assault as fucking weirdness? Fuck me but you've got a nerve. And yes women assault women too. But in far smaller numbers than men. And even so we should be minimising the risk by keeping spaces single sex. It's also not just about assault but dignity and privacy. Which even women in prison are entitled to.
Fucking weirdness.

So maybe he should be saying teachers shouldn't have to use new names and pronouns if that is the issue and let teachers judge how appropriate/safe it is to disclose this to parents.

Certainly worth a discussion between teachers, parents and safeguarding leads to worth with him to come up with a solution that works, yes.

We have to remember the new names (that's not so hard) but also the new pronouns and sometimes the new pronouns don't involve new names.
Also sometimes we then have to remember to use the sex-based pronouns and original name on reports as parents don't know, and sometimes we are to use the new ones.

When it was just MtF and FtM there weren't that many young people involved (though increasing number of girls in the last few years) but now with NB identities Im seeing a lot more.

There's a clip of this now:

The same could be said for a host of issues kids have in schools, are you suggesting teachers should never discuss concerns with parents at all? How are teachers qualified to assess whether parents will be supportive?

I think we need a definition of unsupportive/abusive too.

I know of people who disagree with being gay. Doesn't mean they'd hurt/throw out/abuse their child. They just wouldn't hang up pride flags or announce on face book.

My dd might well express annoyance she isn't allowed to get her nose pierced. Am u an abusive parent for not letting her fully express her " goth identity " cos if you actually bothered to call.amd speak to me I'd be able to tell u that piercings don't realky work on her. The secind she removes them she cabt get them back through the hole. Even when it was left untouched for nearly a yr.

Disagreement/questions/reservations are not abuse. Perhaps instead of teaching kids their parebts are against them , perhaps teach them critical thinking skills. Come up with an actual sound, verifiable argument. If they can't say why they want something without sounding like mindless drones quoting facts off a penguin wrapper you cant accuse parents of being anything tbh.

Just remember how much harder it's made fir parents when they are allowed to leave school of ab afternoon all.punped up they have been allowed to do something only to be confronted witg reality at home.

This is part if the problem. Making parents the bad guys all the time.

I'm.sure larents have reservations over lots of medical.treatments too. Doesn't mean they will.let their kid die its means sone decisions have to be discussed, seriously researched and prepared for.

That's not abusive

Clarification for adults like random and ancientgran arguing that this vulnerable group of children must be removed from safeguarding guidelines.

Training in safeguarding tells teachers they must never agree to keep disclosures about a child's wellbeing secret - they must be shared in line with the school safeguarding policy. Safeguarding leads manage disclosures from children with abusive parents on a regular basis, usually in partnership with other agencies. It's always a challenge but the legal principle is that everyone works in partnership with parents and only the courts can remove parental rights.
It's only since the emergence of dangerous trans guidelines from unqualified lobbyists in sexual politics that this exclusion of parents from their children's lives has happened. Parents are unable to protect children if key information is hidden
Almost every serious case review into safeguarding disasters highlights it's the failure to share information that leads to children being harmed.
Finally the government have acted - some of us have been writing to a succession of ministers about this for a very long time.

It is not a teacher's job to know the family and make judgements, if they see a red flag they trigger a safeguarding referral. It's very important they do this whatever their opinion of the family so that abuse isn't hidden behind "but they seem so nice".

Just to confirm, I'm not only a trained safeguarding practitioner but also train adults in schools .

It’s also the message that some schools are giving to gender distressed children- “your parents are unsupportive because they won’t affirm your identity.”

it undermines the child’s sense of stability within the family unit and that in itself can create a whole host of mental health issues outwith the gender distress. The school is immediately putting a wedge between the child and their parents - “oh we’ll support you, even when your parents don’t” etc. The overwhelming majority of parents are doing their utmost to support their child but supporting THE CHILD does not necessarily mean immediately supporting an identity which may have arisen due to any number of reasons (and school staff may or may not be aware of any potential underlying reasons).

Its not just the immediate issue of a school supporting the social transition of a child behind parents’ backs. It’s also the wider consequences wrt the child’s relationship with their parents and their sense of security within the family.

@ResisterRex thank you for the clip. I don't know how the woman is who asked the question?
I suppose the comeback might be that we don't have a need to tell parents that a young person is gay. But being gay doesn't involve making changes to yourself or your name.

There must be a reason that activists and lobby groups have continued this 'shh! don't tell the parents!' narrative. Just like the constant assertion that trans issues and exactly like sexual orientation issues. Just like the constant stream of emotionally manipulative media around the issue.

I wonder who benefits from detaching parents from their very vulnerable children?

Any answers from those pushing the 'don't tell the parent's' agenda?

That's the question that needs asking. Years ago a number of us challenged indoctrination training from GIRES that told adults to keep secrets not only from parents but shamefully to ignore school safeguarding rules by promising even the youngest of primary children secrecy if they said they were the opposite sex. (I still have the screenshots)
After years of dangerous advice, they changed all the case studies to reflect safeguarding but with no apology or notification about the dangers their "training" posed for children.
But why were they involving themselves with children and schools in the first place - especially as their only expertise appeared to be in being trans?

I'm not trying to minimise any potential weirdness that could come from mixed sex prisons, but what are the big concerns? Sexual assault? Because I'm pretty sure that women sexually assault women in prison anyway (a lot more cis women than trans women), just like male-on-male sex abuse in prisons

Given that there have been at least two pregnancies in women's prisons in the US since males have joined the female population, you may like to consider that not only are only males with penises capable of rape where women are not, but the consequences of rape can also include unwanted pregnancy.

'Trans kids' are essential to the 'born this way' narrative of the late transitioning heterosexual male. At one time transactivists were quite open about the way they were using children, but more recently have become less enthusastic about being totally transparent about their agenda.

Miranda Yardley has written a number of blog posts about this. This is from one of them:

"I have written before about how children are leveraged by transgender activists to validate their own identity on the basis of gender nonconformity: kids do, in the words of Autumn Sandeen, remove the mystery of, and desexualise the trans experience. Yes, he really said this."

The videos where Sandeen said this were taken down a year or two ago. Obviously attracting the wrong sort of attention.

'Trans kids' are necessary as a sort of human shield for late transitioning heterosexual males. Not informing parents about their children's trans identities helps the social contagion to spread more effectively amongst children without input from the adults who care about them, and drives them towards internet based 'support' filled with adults who just want to use them.