Some single sex spaces are more equal than others

[ResisterRex]

This farmers' group has refused to open up to women. It seems they've fiercely defended their rights to meet as men need their own spaces for good mental health.

So men are allowed this but meanwhile on another thread, women can't have single sex rape crisis services.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/16/sexism-row-erupts-men-only-farmers-group-bars-women-one-lads/

"The group argued that all-male spaces are important because men need a safe space to discuss their mental healthh_, particularly in an industry where loneliness, stress and financial problems can trigger depression.

Mrs Edwards, however, viewed the policy as “discriminatory” and “outdatedd_” saying female farmers were being denied valuable networking opportunities.
Mrs Edwards, 53, and her husband Simon, 56, first put forward the proposal to the group after realising that if they had had daughters instead of sons, their children would have been barred from going to meetings with their father."

Oh tush woman! It's only because the Edwards children don't identify as men.

Oh, wait...

Interesting previous thread on single sex spaces for men.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4383201-Men-only-spaces

I think men should be able to have single sex spaces. The view that their farming group needs to be single sex because it functions as a male mental health group could be argued either way, but it’s not completely unreasonable. It’s a private association and I think they are within their rights.

Men should absolutely be able to have single sex spaces. As long as women can too.

@tabbycatstripy

I think men should be able to have single sex spaces. The view that their farming group needs to be single sex because it functions as a male mental health group could be argued either way, but it’s not completely unreasonable. It’s a private association and I think they are within their rights.

I think you're missing the point.

Whiskey: Happy to hear what you think the point is.

Men should be allowed single sex spaces and women should be allowed single sex spaces.

I think men should be able to have their own single sex spaces. It's just interesting that the response here was NO. Meanwhile, women are having to fight tooth and nail for theirs, being told to reframe their trauma, or put on lists and hounded out of jobs for wanting the law to be upheld.

Yes, I agree the response to male need is often more sympathetic than the response to female need. I will lend these farmers my sympathy, but in return I expect theirs.

@tabbycatstripy

Yes, I agree the response to male need is often more sympathetic than the response to female need. I will lend these farmers my sympathy, but in return I expect theirs.

Exactly.

Near me there’s a mens talking group. It supports men with their mental health. I think it’s a wonderful idea and I hope no women try and take it away from them.

@tabbycatstripy

Yes, I agree the response to male need is often more sympathetic than the response to female need. I will lend these farmers my sympathy, but in return I expect theirs.

Livestock farmers are particularly good at biology 😀 so would undoubtedly snort at TWAW.

Would totally defend single sex spaces especially rape crisis centres. Have family connections so would back farmers right to men only associations. Farming is one of the highest risk professions for suicide. Loneliness, stress, financial problems - and access to shotguns.

I’m also suspicious in general of people who declare things to be outdated, old-fashioned, not fit for the modern world. That’s true sometimes, but often the thing they object to is absolutely commonplace. Like the need for single sex spaces. The emotive ‘progress’ argument is usually because they don’t have a rational one.

‘Farming is one of the highest risk professions for suicide. Loneliness, stress, financial problems - and access to shotguns.’

Add long, anti-social hours and isolated locations. Probably add a higher likelihood of substance abuse?

This is where it gets complicated I think because traditionally men's single sex spaces are more likely to be used for networking and career advancement whereas women's are for safety.

What would happen if Mrs. Edwards declared she was a man?

There’s not much career advancement in mens farming get togethers. Perhaps for estate managers but most farmers are already their own boss and can’t just easily just up stocks and get a new farm.

I don’t find it complicated. Freedom of association is a human right. These aren’t public services.

Men should definitely be able to meet, as should women, without the opposite sex present. The only problem has been that, traditionally, men hold the power and decisions are reached without women. But support groups? Nah.

Mrs Edwards can start her own women farmers support group.

I think think they are entitled to a single sex space if it is used as a support service and 'not just to keep women out'.

Farming Today covered this. The issue for the women is that they miss out on valuable professional discussions and useful information.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00168hh

But of course men should be able to have their own single sex spaces and supportive groups if they so wish, as should women.

I'm fine with and agree that people should be able to organise single sex groups, and it is a fact that in a single sex group people will participate differently and be able to express themselves differently and need to be able to do this.

If people not of that sex also have that need, the answer is not to deprive the other sex of something that works for them because they want to make use of it themselves, but to create an additional mixed sex group that offers the same opportunities.

@Cailin66

What would happen if Mrs. Edwards declared she was a man?

Excellent question

It would put everyone in a very difficult position, because it would be trying to wangle men out of being permitted a men only group. And in the process might get what she wanted, but at the cost of spoiling that group and what it's doing for the men involved, and a lot of bad feeling. Why would she need to do that?

We really don't need to join in the unpleasant and entitled behaviour so readily inflicted on women only groups. Better to model what we wish male people would do, which is respect other people's needs and choices and set up additional provisions.

Is the answer to this that women are their own worst enemies? Men support men only spaces. Whereas quite a lot of women seem only too keen to invite in natal males into women only spaces? Why is that?

I'm a female farmer and do t have a problem with this. Farmers are renowned for battling on through adversity regardless and not being able to admit that they are struggling. I can think of 3 instances off the top of my head where a local farmer has committed suicide by shotgun.
I'm a member of three women in farming Facebook groups,and they are strictly female only.